over stocked?

[Bruce Leyland-Jones]

My issue with the word 'overstocking' is that every fishkeeper is different and has a different set of abilities. I am going to help you out without reading any other replies because everyone has different opinions on this.

Cleaning:
If you keep your tank clean in an 'overstocked' aquarium, you should not have any issues. Overstocking becomes a major issue if the water quality is terrible.

-How often do you do water changes?

Feeding:
When you overfeed your fish in an 'overstocked' aquarium, you can cause more harm than good for your fish. The more you feed them, the more food goes to waste and can cause an ammonia spike.

-How much/often do you feed your fish? What do you feed them?

True overstocking is when your fish have seriously outgrown your tank and have a tight turning space. It also becomes an issue with ammonia and nitrite levels are way to high. If you have, lets say, double the filtration capacity in your 10 g (meaning you have filtration for a 20g) then you shouldn't have any problems.

My only worry about your tank is the guorami situation. They like being in pairs or groups and I don't think you have enough space for that. Your nano species should be fine though, just worried about the guoramis.

-How big are your guoramis right now?

That response completely ignores the needs of the fish themselves.

1. Fish need room to move and move naturally. The actual water conditions can be perfect, but space IS important and vital.
2. Fish need room to do 1 above, amongst a suitable number of their kind.
3. If fish lack the necessary 1 and 2 above, they become stressed and, as a direct consequence, fall foul of disease and other complaints. They can also become either unnaturally aggressive or reclusive.

Note that these are not simply opinions, but scientifically proven facts.

 

[Byron]

While opinions may differ, right or wrong, the scientific facts involved are absolute and these need to be noted here.

One that stands out in post #15 is the often-mentioned filter misunderstanding. Having larger filters, or more filters, will not allow more fish to be in the tank. The nitrifying bacteria (which is being taken as the main issue here, though it is only one issue) in any aquarium with live fish will multiply to the level needed to deal with the available ammonia (then nitrite in the second stage). Filter or no filter, this happens. All the filter really does in a beneficial way is move the water around, and hopefully allow the ammonia in the water to pass through the filter media. Nitrifying bacteria will occur in the substrate, which is why tanks with no filters can be biologically stable [of course, fish numbers are even more critical here, for obvious reasons]. But the main point is that the filter really has nothing to do with all this. The tank needs to be biologically balanced without the filter, and this involves the number and species of fish [their expectations/requirements as post #17 notes must be understood and provided for] in the given space which must be environmentally suited to those fish, and the necessary maintenance must be carried out regularly.

 

[carligraceee]

That response completely ignores the needs of the fish themselves.

1. Fish need room to move and move naturally. The actual water conditions can be perfect, but space IS important and vital.
2. Fish need room to do 1 above, amongst a suitable number of their kind.
3. If fish lack the necessary 1 and 2 above, they become stressed and, as a direct consequence, fall foul of disease and other complaints. They can also become either unnaturally aggressive or reclusive.

Note that these are not simply opinions, but scientifically proven facts.

I do want to note that I did not say that space wasn't important as I literally wrote out that as long as the fish has plenty of space to move and grow, you can refer to your water parameters instead. That is why I said the nano species the OP had would be alright because they, 1- have enough space to move around, 2- shouldn't create too much waste for the filter to process.

However, the only reason I took my comment down was because of the filter misunderstanding. But I did not disregard any needs of the fish, I was very clear about what you should look for if you think your tank is overstocked.

The definition of overstocking is opinionated. People follow the inch rule, the filter rule, the gallon rule, all these different rules. This is why I say looking at your fish's behavior, the water parameters and the space the fish has to move around is when you can tell if your tank is overstocked or not.

I would never disregard the needs of any animal.

I also didn't realize they had 4 otos as well. This person seems to already get the point that their tank might be overstocked, but I like keeping otos and any bottom feeder in tanks above 15g.

I personally use AqAdvisor to calculate my filter capacity and tank space. I will always recommend this to everyone who asks if their tank is overstocked.

 

[Byron]

I'd like to mention what I feel is the most important factor in stocking the tank, when considering a number of things including but not limited to whether it is overstocked or not. And that is, the requirements of the fish species. And before getting to this, I'd like to make it clear that I am not criticizing @carligraceee nor anyone else. The initial question mentioned certain numbers of certain fish species, and that is what I am concerned with here.

One reason the 10g tank is overstocked, or to perhaps be more accurate, inappropriately stocked, is because of the needs of the species. I will only deal with neon tetras, Paracheirodon innesi, here. This species needs a much larger tank space--if we want it to thrive rather than just survive. The distinction between these two terms is frequently blurred if it is even recognized. But reliable sites recommend at minimum a 24-inch/60cm long tank, which could be a standard 15g or 20g tank. There is now scientific evidence for this; this species is a shoaling/schooling species, which means not that it swims around together (it may or may not) but that it absolutely needs a number of its own, and that is where the tank space comes into the equation.

Earlier this week I posted data from an article on the effect of the number of individual fish within a shoaling species, and P. innesi just happens to be one of the four species used in this study. The study investigated the welfare of the fish in relation to group size. Factors studies included aggressiveness (which increased in the smaller group), darting (fright), shoaling, and latency to feed. In summary, there was incontrovertible evidence in that study that this species will be significantly healthier and less prone to detrimental issues in a group of 10 than it will in a group of five. The conclusion is clear: the more fish in the group, the better their condition, health and well-being will be, so instead of attempting to have six neons in a 10g, select another species that will be better suited, or provide a larger tank so that the expe3ctations of the fish can be met. The reward is healthier fish and more successful keeping of the fish. And that is why the 10g is "overstocked," or inappropriately stocked, because if we provide adequate numbers the space is detrimental.

Those who may not have seen the earlier post on the study may wish to read it, here:

Effect of group size on behaviour and welfare of fish

The number of fish needed for species "x" to be healthy and less stressed in an aquarium is a topic that enters quite a number of threads on TFF. Some of us realize how vitally important the number of fish for a particular species really is, but having scientifically-controlled studies that...

www.fishforums.net

 

[Tenaj]

Hello. I am new to this as well. I started with a 10 gallon neon kit aquarium. I bought 2 glo tetras and 2 glo barbs. The barbs died within a week. I knew nothing about the cycling process. I did lots of research. I upgraded to a 36 gallon tank. I did a cycle and brought over much of what was inside my 10 gallon tank. I wanted to keep the bacteria needed to cause my 2 tetras less harm with the move. One week later I added 4 more glo tetras, as I learned they do much better in a school of 5 or more. A week later I added 3 glo danios and a glo shark. 3 weeks in and everyone seems fine. Did a water change today and water lever seems to be reading good. Hoping to keep algae out. Added some live plants as well. I am learning this hobby everyday and this forum has been so helpful.

 

[Tenaj]

I'd like to mention what I feel is the most important factor in stocking the tank, when considering a number of things including but not limited to whether it is overstocked or not. And that is, the requirements of the fish species. And before getting to this, I'd like to make it clear that I am not criticizing @carligraceee nor anyone else. The initial question mentioned certain numbers of certain fish species, and that is what I am concerned with here.

One reason the 10g tank is overstocked, or to perhaps be more accurate, inappropriately stocked, is because of the needs of the species. I will only deal with neon tetras, Paracheirodon innesi, here. This species needs a much larger tank space--if we want it to thrive rather than just survive. The distinction between these two terms is frequently blurred if it is even recognized. But reliable sites recommend at minimum a 24-inch/60cm long tank, which could be a standard 15g or 20g tank. There is now scientific evidence for this; this species is a shoaling/schooling species, which means not that it swims around together (it may or may not) but that it absolutely needs a number of its own, and that is where the tank space comes into the equation.

Earlier this week I posted data from an article on the effect of the number of individual fish within a shoaling species, and P. innesi just happens to be one of the four species used in this study. The study investigated the welfare of the fish in relation to group size. Factors studies included aggressiveness (which increased in the smaller group), darting (fright), shoaling, and latency to feed. In summary, there was incontrovertible evidence in that study that this species will be significantly healthier and less prone to detrimental issues in a group of 10 than it will in a group of five. The conclusion is clear: the more fish in the group, the better their condition, health and well-being will be, so instead of attempting to have six neons in a 10g, select another species that will be better suited, or provide a larger tank so that the expe3ctations of the fish can be met. The reward is healthier fish and more successful keeping of the fish. And that is why the 10g is "overstocked," or inappropriately stocked, because if we provide adequate numbers the space is detrimental.

Those who may not have seen the earlier post on the study may wish to read it, here:

Effect of group size on behaviour and welfare of fish

The number of fish needed for species "x" to be healthy and less stressed in an aquarium is a topic that enters quite a number of threads on TFF. Some of us realize how vitally important the number of fish for a particular species really is, but having scientifically-controlled studies that...

www.fishforums.net

Love this post!

 

[Avel1896]

Hi @Tenaj please create your own topic in the same category.

 

[Tenaj]

Hi @Tenaj please create your own topic in the same category.

Sorry. I Was not trying to take over anyone else’s topic. I saw there was mention of the same fish I have, along with saying overstocked and thought I’d mention my experience this far

 

[Avel1896]

I Was not trying to take over anyone else’s topic.

Hahaha did I say that ?
As you're asking questions it's better you create your topic. It keeps helpers focused on one thing at a time

 

[NannaLou]

Hahaha did I say that ?
As you're asking questions it's better you create your topic. It keeps helpers focused on one thing at a time

I didn’t see any questions in the post, just a list of experiences ..?

 

[Tenaj]

I didn’t see any questions in the post, just a list of experiences ..?

Thanks.

 

[Avel1896]

I didn’t see any questions in the post, just a list of experiences ..?

Correct Un fact I was asking myself why all those plastic things instead of living plants, roots, branches....

 

[Tenaj]

Correct Un fact I was asking myself why all those plastic things instead of living plants, roots, branches....

?

 

[Avel1896]

?

why all those plastic things on the pics you posted.

 

[Rocky998]

I'm not upset, though I do despise trolls.
You titled the thread 'over stocked'.
You then said that you had 'a 10 gallon wih 1 honey gurami 6 neon tetra a 4 otos my amonia is 0'...which, as you said, is over-stocked.

You didn't ask a question, you just told us that you have an over-stocked tank.
So...again...why are you telling us this?

Like the fact that I have an arowana in a 20 gallon... He's sooo cute.