Old Fish Die, New Fish Thrive

[The Alchemist]

I recently started a 55 gallon tank from a 20 gallon tank with the hopes of moving the fish from small to big.

So far, all the fish from tank 20 that go to tank 55 are dead with in a short amount of time.

Tank 20 has a nitrate of 80, nitrite of 5, and good ph

Tank 55 has a nitrate of 20 and a nitrite of zero and same ph.

So far 2 gold fish died in the switch process, and 1 tetra, and another one is on the way out.

Water is fine in both tanks, and i bought 2 new tester fish at the store and they are fine, they eat swim around, etc. But the other fish are slowly dieing off. I havent moved any more form tank 20, but the are all dieing off. Is it because they are getting stressed out, or am I missing something.

Ammonia is zero to.

 

[Man of fish]

Nitrite is 5 on your 20 gallon???!! That's toxic to the fish! Also did you cycle the new filter because that would cause a problem.

 

[The Alchemist]

Sorry I meant to put 0.5 for nitrite.

Well all the tetras I added earlier today are all dead, but the 2 from the pet store are still alive and kicking.

If the filter is the problem, wouldn't the other fish die as well?

Tank has been on for 8 days.

It cycled for one day before I added the gold fish. One fish died in 1 day and the other one lasted for 3 more days before it died. I add tester fish from pet store on the same day it died. Then I waited 3 or 4 more days until earlier today I thought it safe to add my 3 tetras to the tank, and 2 minutes ago, I flushed the last 2 down the toilet.

So 3 died today in not even 12 hours time, while the tester fish are still alive and kicking.

Im thinking it could just be the stress, of moving from one tank to the other and water quailty is less harsh in it. Nitrate and Nitrite levels are much lower in the bigger tank than the smaller tank. But everyone in the smaller tank is fine until they get moved to the other tank.

Possibly not enough bacteria has grown in the tank in a little over a week for them. I added 5 gallons of 20 gallon tank into the new tank a few days ago, and dumped an older filter from the 20 gallon tank into the new one as well. Water hardness is very different thought. In the 55 gallon tank the general hardness is 120-180 and the 20 gallon is about 30-60.

Could that hardness be to stressful?

 

[moochy13]

can you tell us, just to make clear, what fish are currently in each tank, what filter(s) are on each tank, and how long each filter has been running ? it takes WEEKS for a filter to be ready to do its job.

 

[N0body Of The Goat]

Sorry I meant to put 0.5 for nitrite.

Well all the tetras I added earlier today are all dead, but the 2 from the pet store are still alive and kicking.

If the filter is the problem, wouldn't the other fish die as well?

Tank has been on for 8 days.

It cycled for one day before I added the gold fish. One fish died in 1 day and the other one lasted for 3 more days before it died. I add tester fish from pet store on the same day it died. Then I waited 3 or 4 more days until earlier today I thought it safe to add my 3 tetras to the tank, and 2 minutes ago, I flushed the last 2 down the toilet.

So 3 died today in not even 12 hours time, while the tester fish are still alive and kicking.

Im thinking it could just be the stress, of moving from one tank to the other and water quailty is less harsh in it. Nitrate and Nitrite levels are much lower in the bigger tank than the smaller tank. But everyone in the smaller tank is fine until they get moved to the other tank.

Possibly not enough bacteria has grown in the tank in a little over a week for them. I added 5 gallons of 20 gallon tank into the new tank a few days ago, and dumped an older filter from the 20 gallon tank into the new one as well. Water hardness is very different thought. In the 55 gallon tank the general hardness is 120-180 and the 20 gallon is about 30-60.

Could that hardness be to stressful?

Even 0.5mg/l of nitrite is dangerously toxic. My hunch is that fish transferred over to the new tank have died through "old tank syndrome", because the new tank's water was initially so much toxin-free in comparison, sending the fish into shock.

If I have read the above right, you cycled the new 55 tank for just one day? The only way that would work is if you installed a filter init with all the mature media from the old tank, if you moved all the old fish across in one go. "Fishless cycling" would have taken ~50 days on this new tank, where you feed the tank ammonia to maintain ~4ppm, which lets the bacteria feed and multiply. Simply setting up a tank with a filter and immature media for a day does nothing in practical terms.

 

[tkdjr1186]

And you also should not be mixing Goldfish w/ Tetras. Goldfish are cold water and Tetras are tropical

 

[AbbeysDad]

Yep, it sounds like a case of old tank syndrome and your new tank is headed for new tank syndrome. Your old tank was neglected, indicated by the high nitrates. The fish you moved were not acclimated properly to the new fresh tank water and the shock most likely killed them. It is always safest to do a drip acclimation so fish can slowly adjust to different water chemistry as temperature is just one variable in the mix. Your new tank is likely headed for an ammonia spike so be ready.

 

[cynic]

I am assuming that everybody is being very polite for a reason i can't see.....


Tester fish! what in hell are they supposed to be. This hobby is not guesswork. It is not difficult to find what is harmfull and what isn't.

My interest is keeping said 'TESTER' fish, they are no different to any other fish. They are a living breathing thing and their well being is all our responsibility. Putting a couple in to see if they survive, i can't say anymore without braking rules.

I am shocked and discusted in this thread.

 

[holidayinn]

Seems the 20g tank wasn’t ever cycled, old fish die because they’ve had to put up with the toxic conditions for longer, new fish will become old fish and then given time they will die, you need to cycle your tank before spending any more money on fish.

Tetra’s are not good fish to ‘start’ a tank.

Have a look on the beginners forum, there is much helpful info in the form of stickies.

 

[rastoma]

Get some Tetra Safe Start to help the process along.

 

[Fishy friend2]

Unfortunately this product rarely works

 

[The Alchemist]

Wow, Id like to say that everyone's response was nice except for the one guy [MOD EDIT] talking about tester fish.

Personally speaking I'm not even sure if I'm reading the test strips right on the nitrites. Its a mild light color in between 0 and .5ppm. The bigger tank was a lighter color than the smaller tank, so I just said that it was one step up on the tester strip.

Second thing, in my defense, the tank was not neglected. I did 20 percent changes and gravel vac once a week, every week, with new filters once a month and cleaned the inside and out of tank once a week, along with all decorations.

There were 2 many fish in our 20 gallon tank to begin with.

Reason for our gold fish, we had a snail problem, about 8 months ago, when we bought some snail free plants that had snails in them. We got the gold fish as just as a solution to the problem. We didn't even plan on them living more than a month. They didn't die, and just became members of the tank. They ended up eating all our neon's and one grew to nine inches and the other to about 6 inches long. We couldn't just get rid of them. They were dirty pigs and the water was always cloudy since we had them.

We had 1 molley, 3 long fin tetras, 2 gold fish, 2 angle fish, 1 Plautus catfish, and 1 blue gourmai in the tank. There was just to many and the catfish and angle fish are only going to get bigger, so went with a bigger tank.

I'm not interested in fish less cycling, because the real cycling doesn't even start until you put fish in there. Sadly I didn't think that the gold fish would die that quickly. An error on my own part, but its all part of the learning experience and science of keeping a tank.

And yes I use tester fish, for a buck a pop and to get the tank on a cycling process, that's fine with me, if a few take it for the team.

And just out of plain having to know why the older tank inhabitants were dying and the new ones were living, I did vivid researching last night and came to the conclusion that they have to be dying of shock from water hardness. Today I went to the pet store, and asked the same store to test the water hardness for me, and wouldn't you know it. The water hardness was reading a 150ppm. Which is the same hardness as the new tank to be almost exact. And just to continue to test my theory that I have on hardness I picked up 2 silver tipped sharks, and dropped them in the tank today. They are so cute.....Hahahaha


They seem just fine for now, and I'm hoping that my theory is correct, but only time will tell.

Now...If my theory is correct, than I have to figure out a way to get the water hardness up in the other tank without shocking the older fish into death. I have put a hold on switching all tank fishes into the new tank until I can figure out how to get the water stats almost the same.

Since both both NO2 and NO3 are pretty much the same, and the PH is the same in both tanks, 6.5-7.0 the only main differences are GH and KH. The old tank GH and KH are very low and new tank they are very high.

 

[Man of fish]

First off you need to buy a liquid teat kit as the strips are VERY inaccurate.
Second your silver tipped sharks, I'm assuming are bala sharks, that are very timid fish that need a very large group and a 9x3x3 tank MINIMUM so they will need to go.
Third I also find tester fish a very cruel thing to do. I understand what you're trying to do but I don't think testing it on a living creature is the right thing to do. Think about it this way, would you be happy shoved into a room the size of your closet with nothing in it but you and all of your wastes for your life until you died?
Fourth the statement
[quote/]
the real cycling doesn't even start until you put fish in there
[quite/]

Is false because to cycle a filter all you need is a source of ammonia, and you don't need to put a fishes life at stake to create it.

Fifth don't change your filter cartridges, that's just successfully throwing away your colony of beneficial A-bacs leaving you with nothing to turn the fishes ammonia to nitrites, then nitrites to nitrates.
Sixth hardness doesn't always drastically do that like that because I've bought fish from a store over an hour away in a county with very soft water and put my fish in slightly hard water and they all lived.

 

[The Alchemist]

First off you need to buy a liquid teat kit as the strips are VERY inaccurate.
Second your silver tipped sharks, I'm assuming are bala sharks, that are very timid fish that need a very large group and a 9x3x3 tank MINIMUM so they will need to go.
Third I also find tester fish a very cruel thing to do. I understand what you're trying to do but I don't think testing it on a living creature is the right thing to do. Think about it this way, would you be happy shoved into a room the size of your closet with nothing in it but you and all of your wastes for your life until you died?
Fourth the statement


Is false because to cycle a filter all you need is a source of ammonia, and you don't need to put a fishes life at stake to create it.

Fifth don't change your filter cartridges, that's just successfully throwing away your colony of beneficial A-bacs leaving you with nothing to turn the fishes ammonia to nitrites, then nitrites to nitrates.
Sixth hardness doesn't always drastically do that like that because I've bought fish from a store over an hour away in a county with very soft water and put my fish in slightly hard water and they all lived.

Thanks. I read online the other day about the ammonia to start the cycle. I have no ammonia. Maybe next time I start another tank Ill try that.

As for tester fish, my personal morals are my own morals. You may disagree with it, but its not like Im out shooting people in the head. My intentions are not to kill the fish, but to keep the fish I have and want to keep in the new tank. If you are offended by me going out and getting new fish to keep in the tank hoping they stay alive, well, sorry. There is a difference between intentionally being cruel and with what Im doing. Im all about live and let live. But it all boils down to yours or mine personal morals.

As for the filter, I have probably the low level filters out there that I have been just tossing away and installing new ones. So you disagree with this method, and suggest that I just replace the carbon in each filter about once a month? Am i following you.

Frankly I dont believe everything that I read on the internet, and learn pretty much on my own. I read alot of different opinions out there, and come up with my own theory's. I do believe that the hardness of the water put the fish into a shock and killed them off. Its the only logical explanation I have with the evidence I have submitted.

 

[moochy13]

does your filter have sponges in ? if so, dont replace them unless they are falling apart. rinse them in old tank water, NOT tap water. just rinse enough to get the worst of the sludgey crap off them, then put them back in the filter. carbon is not needed unless you are removing meds or tannin from the tank.