Okay, I Need Some Help With This

[BecciMac1987]

Ok at risk of being mauled...
I was given advice that Bettas actually dont like filtered water/moving water, and just to keep on top of water changes. So by that logic a filter isnt overly necessary....

 

[claudettebillie]

I'm pushing for a bigger tank. I think it may work, but I know for sure that I'm getting a heater whether she wants me to or not.

not being funny but id buy a gold fish until you leave home and then get what you want because right now you carnt really offer what it needs

Are you insane? Goldfish are a large growing species who need at least 30 gallons per fish. A four foot long ( 48 inches ) tank or bigger for a pair, they are very messy and need a lot of filtration to cope with the amount of waste they produce.

His/her mother only just about allowed a tiny horrendous bowl for a betta, do you really think she's going to get a four foot long tank for a goldfish or two? I doubt that going on the info given.

I'm a girl

 

[Honeythorn]

Ok at risk of being mauled...
I was given advice that Bettas actually dont like filtered water/moving water, and just to keep on top of water changes. So by that logic a filter isnt overly necessary....

They often dislike MOVING or turbulent water because they are poor swimmers due to their long fins. It also makes building bubblenests very hard as the movement of the water disturbs or breaks up the nest.

FILTERED water is really needed in order to keep a healthy biological cycle. Yes, you can keep up with water changes in order to keep the waste down, and many do that very successfully. But what if you forget ? Or have to go away and leave the fish in the hands of someone who doesn't know what they are doing? You can't possibly predict that you won't forget, or be ill, or will always have a knowledgeable friend. A filter helps greatly because it does the work for you. The bacteria do the work for you. Using a 5 gal as an example again, I do twice weekly 50% water changes on my mother's tank, and the ammonia and nitrites are always at 0 Nitrate tends to stay at around 15-20 ppm.

Can you garauntee that with an unfiltered tank? Taking into account the fact you may forget or be ill ect and not be able to change the water? No. The filter simply makes everything so much simpler and easier.

As for the flow of water disturbing the fish, small hang on the back filters, and many small internal filters have an adjustable flow rate , or can be modified with a piece of plastic to slow down the flow if they do not. Sponge filters are a nice choice, as they are gentle and do very little to disturb the water. That's why so many breeders of fish use them in fry tanks.

There is also a thread on this site ( in the DIY section I believe ) showing how to make a small gentle filter using a fish food pot, gravel, filter wool, an airpump and airstone with tubing. Very simple. You could use that in a 2-3 gallon tank if commercial ones are still too strong.

There is no excuse not to have a filter. Really there isn't.

 

[BecciMac1987]

Ok at risk of being mauled...
I was given advice that Bettas actually dont like filtered water/moving water, and just to keep on top of water changes. So by that logic a filter isnt overly necessary....

They often dislike MOVING or turbulent water because they are poor swimmers due to their long fins. It also makes building bubblenests very hard as the movement of the water disturbs or breaks up the nest.

FILTERED water is really needed in order to keep a healthy biological cycle. Yes, you can keep up with water changes in order to keep the waste down, and many do that very successfully. But what if you forget ? Or have to go away and leave the fish in the hands of someone who doesn't know what they are doing? You can't possibly predict that you won't forget, or be ill, or will always have a knowledgeable friend. A filter helps greatly because it does the work for you. The bacteria do the work for you. Using a 5 gal as an example again, I do twice weekly 50% water changes on my mother's tank, and the ammonia and nitrites are always at 0 Nitrate tends to stay at around 15-20 ppm.

Can you garauntee that with an unfiltered tank? Taking into account the fact you may forget or be ill ect and not be able to change the water? No. The filter simply makes everything so much simpler and easier.

As for the flow of water disturbing the fish, small hang on the back filters, and many small internal filters have an adjustable flow rate , or can be modified with a piece of plastic to slow down the flow if they do not. Sponge filters are a nice choice, as they are gentle and do very little to disturb the water. That's why so many breeders of fish use them in fry tanks.

There is also a thread on this site ( in the DIY section I believe ) showing how to make a small gentle filter using a fish food pot, gravel, filter wool, an airpump and airstone with tubing. Very simple. You could use that in a 2-3 gallon tank if commercial ones are still too strong.

There is no excuse not to have a filter. Really there isn't.

completely agree in principal, but the tank in question is 1 gallon. Literally one jug to do a water change. Its not like its a 100l system that will take a good while to do. So even with the ill scenario etc, anyone can change that amount of water.

 

[Honeythorn]

Yes but the amount of water is so small that waste will build up quickly and there is very little room to swim and generally exist. as you say, about a jug of water. 1 jug in which to eke out an existance. The more water you have, the more space the fish has to live in, and the more diluted the waste. 2-3 gallons, 5 gallons and 10 gallons are small amounts of water. It doesn't take hours to do a water change, 10 mins at most . And it can be done with a jug or small bucket just as easily as a bowl.

As I said in my first post. Why on earth would anyone deliberately want to replicate the conditions in which the wild fish die in great numbers? Does no one have a square foot of space anywhere? ( which is 6 gallons by the way ) I find that incredibly hard to believe.

 

[BecciMac1987]

Yeah again I agree, but now youre arguing that she needs a bigger tank, Im purely saying in 1 gallon you dont need a filter.
My 100l wouldnt need two filters if it was double the size cuz the waste would be more diltued, thats obvious.
So in short, the betta needs a bigger tank (pref 5 gals), but as long as you keep on top of the water changes (50% twice a week-not hard till she can get a filter for, say, xmas or bday maybe) a 1 gallon if you insist on using it will be fine.

Any Honeythorn, no offence, but the poster is asking how to cycle it i.e the filter question. If her mum made it hard for her to get a 1 gallon, she isnt guna just go out and get her a 6 gallon now is she.

 

[lilfishie]

if you can get a bigger tank then do, anything is better than i 1/2 gal, i have happily kept bettas in a 2.5 gal filtered and heated

 

[Honeythorn]

She has already said she is trying for a bigger tank. And I have already said that a filter and pure ammonia is needed for cycling.

Plus she doesn't have a tank. She has a BOWL. which tend to be circular if I recall correctly. Not the easiest shape to attach a filter to, as most of the ones available for small tanks are made for TANKS, which do tend to have straight sides.

Certainly she could drop into the DIY thread and try to make the little sponge filter shown there. But if she can get her mother to allow even a 3 gallon, she could make things easier and get a proper filter and heater.

 

[Mauricia]

I completely disagree that a filter is totally necessary. Two of my males are in 5 gallon tanks with no filter, I just do a 100% water change once a week. Test results show that ammonia and nitrites are undetectable even before I change the water, so I'm not at all worried that the water is unhealthy for them. I chose to not use filters in their tanks because they both got very upset with the water movement, even after it was minimized as much as possible. My guess is that you could do 100% water changes once a week in a 2.5 gallon tank too without the ammonia and nitrites becoming noticable.
Really, with small tanks, it's very difficult to cycle, really 5 gallons is the smallest I think you could cycle and stay stable.
Heaters though are very important, as bettas prefer their water to be around 78-80 degrees.
If I were you I would try to fight for a 2.5 gallon tank as you can get a mini heater for those, the problem with a 1 gallon tank, other than swimming room, is they really can't be heated. If you're careful about doing regular 100% water changes, your fish would be fine in 2.5 gallons of heated water.

 

[claudettebillie]

I got a heater AND thermometer. It's on 78 degrees now. I shall show you what I got through EVERY time I try to get something for the betta fish:

Me: "Okay, I'll get my wallet."
Mom: "Why?"
Me: "Oh, because I want to get a heater for the tank."
Mom: "I told you, Emilee, they don't need that!"
Me: "Yes they do-"
Mom: "But your other fish were happy!"
Me: "They only lived a year- healthy betta fish can live to be 5!"
Mom: "Whatever. It's your money I don't care what you do with it."

Then she pouts and totally ignores me. She tries to make me feel guilty about doing what's RIGHT!! I DO have 2 ten gallon tanks, but they're for my gerbil. (Obviously with no water in it.) But the equipment to get a ten gallon tank going isn't cheap- I think I'm better off just buying a kit.

And I know what I'm asking for Christmas this year- a 5 gallon tank kit.

Oh, and my fish bowl isn't a round one- it's one of those drum ones where two sides are flat and two sides are rounded.

 

[Honeythorn]

Like I say there is a DIY filter you can make yourself. The thread is located here

spongey


and that will fit into your bowl for now. It also should produce just a few bubbles and not actual current since it's powered by an airstone and pump . You will still need to do the total daily water changes until you have a bigger tank.

 

[claudettebillie]

Like I say there is a DIY filter you can make yourself. The thread is located here <a href="http/www.fishforums.net/content/Aquarium...-sponge-filter/" target="_blank">http/www.fishforums.net/content/Aquarium...-sponge-filter/</a> and that will fit into your bowl for now. It also should produce just a few bubbles and not actual current since it's powered by an airstone and pump . You will still need to do the total daily water changes until you have a bigger tank.

Cool, thanks for the link!

 

[rossyboy]

I completely disagree that a filter is totally necessary. Two of my males are in 5 gallon tanks with no filter, I just do a 100% water change once a week.



LOL!!! eeeeeek

 

[OldMan47]

It's time to get real here. Any fish can be kept in a container that is big enough for it, without a filter. The reason we don't do that is because it is way too much work and the first time you are late with a water change, the fish suffer from the buildup. What it takes to do it is never missing a water change and always changing the water very early in the ammonia build up so there is virtually no ammonia detectable ever. A person using this approach can never go away for the weekend, never get too sick to do the water changes and must be constantly vigilant about looking after the water in the tank. For most of us, that kind of commitment is almost unthinkable but it will work. A much more practical approach is a filter with a properly built up colony of bacteria to prevent toxic amounts of ammonia and nitrites building up in the tank. This is the basis for the advice we normally give people on here but is not the only way to have a fish survive and even thrive. We have here a young person who wants to have a betta and is unable to follow the usual method. Other methods can be made to work if she is willing to devote herself that much to the fish's care.

 

[AngelOfDeath]

I WAS going to get a tank of fish until *poof* I got a ferret. Now, I've convinced my mother for a Betta fish! My problem is that she thinks they can actually live happily in a half gallon (US gallon) tank with no filter or heater. I was able to convince her to let me get a 1 gallon fish bowl, but a filter and heater are still out of the question. I think I may be able to get a heater, but there is no hope for a filter. So, I'm stuck with a lifeless bowl sitting on the kitchen counter full of water. My mother also would think that I'd be stupid to get a testing kit. I can get the kit, but she'd be extremely mad at me for getting it. (It's my money, go figure.) What can I do to make the fish happy? If I have to clean the bowl every day, I will. And if I have to make my mom mad I will, I'd just like to avoid a few fights. So, my main question is how I'm going to cycle a fish bowl. I'm pretty sure there was something on this forum about it, but I can't find it for the life of me. Geez, this would all be SO easy if my mother would just actually believe me when it comes to my pets!!! Just because my last betta fish lived for a long time doesn't mean it was happy or healthy!

To be honest the best advice I can give you is not to get the fish, having the fish without a filter is just cruel. Im sure you can live without a betta until you can afford a filter...

what the...i'm fairly tired of bad advice been given regarding betta. they do not need a filter, most actually prefer no filter as the flow can be too much. the fish arguably don't even need a heater so no need to string this kid up for not having a filter.

if you want a betta go for it, it will be fine. anyway, betta are like £2.00 so who cares