Official Advice Topic

[chr15_8]

Equipment:length of hose to correct length, water declorinator, vacum attachment.

my weekly maintenance consists of

a length of pipe attached to a gravel vacum. i then lightly hoover the surface of the sand. this removes about 20% of the water. i then remove anover 5-10% from hoovering the rock etc in the tank. i then add declorinator directlyto the tank (i use 50%more than stated). i then fill the tank up using another hose attahced to a mixer tap to get roughly the same water temp. while i do this none of my filter get turned of

on my tank i have 2 external filters. i clean the every 4 weeks. but i stager it so i clean filter 1, two weeks later filter 2, two week later filter 1 etc. i clean all the sponge under the tap and all the biological media in the filter i took it out of.

chris

 

[TarkMalbot]

Equipment: 2 Buckets, Gravel sucking syphon, Stress Coat, Aquarium Salt, Thermometer (not used anymore. Will explain)

My method:

Get your clean bucket (usually fit about 12 liters max) and fill with 9 liters of cold tap water. Add 2ml of stress coat (or follow instructions to exact and work it out. Something like 1ml for 7.6 liters of water) to make tap water safe. Add 7.5 Grams of API Aquarium salt (or again work it out exact). Then add 1 liter or boiling water to get temperature up to about right. This will depend on how cold your tap water is but once I had worked it out roughly I was happy with my method. This avoids any temperature drop and is easy to do. Use the thermometer when first getting method so you roughly know how to mix the water. Just remember this will change as the climate changes too.

Take your gravel sucker and second bucket and take out 10 liters whilst cleaning the gravel (if you have any). Put this straight down the outside drain. Repeat this until you have about 5-10 liters left of the amount out you want to change in total. Then take the last 5-10 liters of just tank water with no gravel dirt in there. This is used to clean out the filters avoiding tap water or cold temperatures etc etc that could cause loss of good bacteria.

When you have all the water you want out and filters clean you can put the filters back in. Then put your ready mixed water into the tank. Repeat the water mixing until you have topped the tank back up to the required level.

This can be done by using only one bucket or as many as you like but I just think a dirty bucket and clean bucket makes sense to me.

 

[Bignose]

Ok, that's very interesting reading. Thanks Tolak.

It still raises a few questions for me though.

1) I'd still be curious about cycling a tank with no filter. Surely this theory is suggesting that it would be a viable option?

2) Although a chloramine resistant strain of the bacteria can develop, it doesn't seem to be the case that this will happen. Bignose quotes that a survey found around 65% of utilities tested positive for nitrifying bacteria. What about the other 35%? How do you know whether your water has chloramine resistant nitrifying bacteria or not? It seems that not dechlorinating or washing your biological media under the tap could be a risky business if you are in the 35%.

3) Does the same apply for chlorine and chloramine?

Also, my apologies to UKfan. This has went way off the original topic. I suggest it should maybe be continued in the thread which Tolak linked to?

1) It is and has always been a viable option. Just not usually a good option. There is a difference. You can cycle a goldfish bowl, for example. Cycling simply means giving the bacteria enough resources (oxygen, food) to grow large enough in numbers that they can consume ammonia at the same rate the fish produce it. Now, obviously, a filter helps this because it stirs up the water and continuously brings food to the bacteria. The stirring action also helps make sure enough oxygen gets in the water. Like I said, it is viable, just not the best or easiest option.

2) Well, certainly there are no guarantees that your bacteria come from a resistant strain. However, there is a guarantee that the level of chloramine/chlorine in your water is not designed to kill off a colony the size of our biological filtration very quickly. Our colonies are many, many times the size of the colony that would be killed just by quick exposure to our water. The chlorine and chloramine levels can't be too high, otherwise they start to affect humans' health and taste of the water. If you kept the sponge under the tap for a long time, then maybe it would be enough to kill it, but just a quick rinse to get the trapped gunk out of it, may hurt the colony a little. But, the filter bacteria double about every 24 hours, so unless you kill off more than 50% of all the bacteria, any mini-cycle will last less than 24 hours and will probably go by completely unnoticed.

3) The bacteria were surviving off of chloramine because the amine part of chloramine is ammonia, just like the fish waste. So, the bacteria could use that for sustenance. But, the main reason chloramine is preferred these days is that it is much more stable and long-lasting than chlorine. Chlorine doesn't stay in the water for very long (gases out), and is fairly reactive so even when it is in the water, it doesn't do it's thing for as long as chloramine can. So, there are a whole different host of problems from using chlorine.

 

[backtotropical]

Thanks Bignose. So, to clear this up, are you saying that

1) Dechlorinator is not necessary as the levels of chlorine and chloramine in our tap water are not high enough to have any significant impact on the filter bacteria.

and

2) Washing biological media under the tap is perfectly ok for the same reasons as stated in point 1) above?

Many thanks

BTT

 

[PRW1988]

Gotta say aswell, doing a water change every 3-4weeks isn't really helping your water quality all that much, I do 2 30% water changes every week on my 55gallon tank.

Sorry, but I don't find this thread to be pin worthy. Aswell, Dechlorinators usually take about 10minutes to full kick in, so adding the water right after adding the chemicals isn't really that great.

 

[backtotropical]

Sorry, but I don't find this thread to be pin worthy. Aswell, Dechlorinators usually take about 10minutes to full kick in, so adding the water right after adding the chemicals isn't really that great.

It is my understanding that dechlorinator works almost instantly, however the scientific answer to this, i don't know.

BTT

 

[Chrispixx]

Some of you have some lengthy water change procedures...buckets, stress coat, aquarium salt (salt is not needed) unless you're brackish or have a species that requires it.

I stopped using buckets along time ago, i have a python now much easier. I hook the python up to the sink start the water to get the suction, put the gravel tube in the tank the siphon action starts going, i go back to the sink shut the water off unhook the python hose (quick disconnect) kink the hose and place it in the bathtub (this way a lot of water isn't wasted while gravel vac-ing.)

I continue to gravel vac until i remove the amount of water i want (in gallons) which i am able to tell how much that is buy a black line on the corner of the tank from a sharpie marker. Once i get close to this mark i go back to the sink and run the water to get the temp within a few degrees of the tank, kink the python hose, hook it back up, reverse the flow and refill.
I add dechlor as its refilling, enough for the amount of water that was removed.

I still have buckets.. i use them when cleaning filters. I fill the bucket with tank water from the python hose to wash the filter inserts in. I usually do the filter pads once a month or when the water flow reduces.

I have HOB filters and i rarely take them off the back of the tank, i use a large fine net and put it under the spill way of the filter that way when i pull the insert any debris that would go in the tank get caught by the net. Then i use a tank dedicated brush to clean the filter box while the net is still in place and any other gunk in the filter box is caught by the net.

I stopped using Stress Coat too, Prime lasts longer.

 

[Chrispixx]

Sorry, but I don't find this thread to be pin worthy. Aswell, Dechlorinators usually take about 10minutes to full kick in, so adding the water right after adding the chemicals isn't really that great.

It is my understanding that dechlorinator works almost instantly, however the scientific answer to this, i don't know.

BTT

BTT..I would say your right.

 

[n3ont3tra]

Thanks Bignose. So, to clear this up, are you saying that

1) Dechlorinator is not necessary as the levels of chlorine and chloramine in our tap water are not high enough to have any significant impact on the filter bacteria.

I think dechlorinator is still necessary for the fish...

 

[TarkMalbot]

I am interested in this python that was mentioned. Sounds easier but I dont know anything about it. Can anyone explain more?

 

[n3ont3tra]

It's really easy to use, but it's hard to explain it. The directions that come with it are very good.

Here's a link
http/www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod...cfm?pcatid=3910

 

[Chrispixx]

Python is a hose you hook to your faucet. They come in different lengths from 25 to 100 feet. You can get the 25 footer then go to your home center and buy clear hose and add on. Python sells the couplers to make this possible.
If you get it you will be happy you did. Just be careful with the faucet pump you can crack it off the faucet easy if you pull the hose to far.

Here's a link:Python

Pyhon Accessories

 

[Chrispixx]

Thanks n3ont3tra you post 10:05... I post 10:07... i hate it when that happens.

Anyway i'm not deleting it, my link has a better price. .................

 

[n3ont3tra]

My link has better customer service.

 

[Tolak]

Dechlor works almost instantly, think of adding chocolate powder to a glass of milk & giving it a stir, that quick.