Oddballs For A 30G

[N0body Of The Goat]

Sounds an awsome "chilled out" tank stocking, the sort of thing to help you unwind after a pig day at work!

Presumeably your 20g has at least a footprint of 60x30cm, in which case you could confidently have two ABF up top, possibly even a pair (females have straight rear edge to anal fin, males have kinked or rounded rear edge). Although they can get territorial with each other (which Neale commented on recently, ~30cm square per specimen), you might have noticed in your LFS that they do sometimes huddle together. My pair spend part ofthe day ignoring each other in the 620T, but then in the evening are often side-by-side.

 

[kizno1]

Sounds an awsome "chilled out" tank stocking, the sort of thing to help you unwind after a pig day at work!

Presumeably your 20g has at least a footprint of 60x30cm, in which case you could confidently have two ABF up top, possibly even a pair (females have straight rear edge to anal fin, males have kinked or rounded rear edge). Although they can get territorial with each other (which Neale commented on recently, ~30cm square per specimen), you might have noticed in your LFS that they do sometimes huddle together. My pair spend part ofthe day ignoring each other in the 620T, but then in the evening are often side-by-side.

Its a 30G and the footprint is 36x12". Hmm ive always like ABF but i doubt there would be enough room for any in with the 3 Ropefish and a Ctenopoma acutirostre. Can they live on there own or do they need to be in pairs/trios/groups? If there was enough room for 1 then i would defiantly go for them.

 

[kizno1]

.

 

[N0body Of The Goat]

I only leant about their semi-social side some time after aquiring my male, who I used to have to spot feed, yet he he was so squittish (it was a nightmare to be honest). However, with company, he has learnt off the femlae that it is pretty safe to wander to the open lid of the tank and actively seek out the food I'm adding... He is a very different fish, so much more confident!

Hopefully others will chip in, but given your three species use different areas of the tank, I think you have acres of room for two ABF floating on the water surface.

 

[kizno1]

I might change the Ropefish to a Chaca chaca. Do you think there would be room for
1 Chaca chaca
2 Ctenopoma acutirostre (1 Male, 1 Female)
3 Pantodon buchholz (1 Male, 2 Females)

 

[kizno1]

I might change the Ropefish to a Chaca chaca. Do you think there would be room for
1 Chaca chaca
2 Ctenopoma acutirostre (1 Male, 1 Female)
3 Pantodon buchholz (1 Male, 2 Females)

Or i know its not really oddball but i might go for a big shoal of Pareutropius buffei or Kryptopterus minor and maybe 1 bigger fish as a centre piece.

 

[always4lora]

I might change the Ropefish to a Chaca chaca. Do you think there would be room for
1 Chaca chaca
2 Ctenopoma acutirostre (1 Male, 1 Female)
3 Pantodon buchholz (1 Male, 2 Females)

Or i know its not really oddball but i might go for a big shoal of Pareutropius buffei or Kryptopterus minor and maybe 1 bigger fish as a centre piece.

Rope fish are great i'd deffo go for them

 

[N0body Of The Goat]

From what I read when researching Ctenopoma acutirostre, buying just two is quite a risk, it has to be one or a group of 3+ (just like Panda Garras, albeit these guys can do nothing like the damage a Ctenopoma can inflict).

I bought a group of five babies (~2.5cm TL) initially mid summer, but one mysteriously vanished without a trace within a few weeks in the Rio240 and then I lost another in early September in the 150g during a horrid ten day period of fishkeeping (I lost two of my Humphead Glassfish, in hindsight almost certainly down to my stupidity of installing a Hydor Magnum 8 powerhead, which recently went into "Seffieuk"'s marine setup). By December, the remaining trio had grown to ~6.5cm TL, when I took what I thought was a big gamble by introducing a ~11cm male Ctenopoma into my 5-footer (he was looking so unhappy in the bare fish store tank and was a steal for £10). Luckily for me, the young trio accepted their "new leader" and they give him plenty of respect, but the equal-sized trio regularly chase each other.
I guess this was the point of my novel, in that they form a hierachy and in a duo the submissive one will probably be constantly bullied and in a 30g, it will have very little room to hide.

I really like the idea of a nice group of P. buffei, with those lovely striped bodies; midwater tight schooling; peaceful nature (much like the smaller Shadow Catfish that I fell in love with recently at Aquajardin, after IDing them at home, but now I'm concerned about how these blackwater fish will do in my gH 14 pH 8.2 tap water). Its worth mentioning that P. buffei loves current, which creates a conflict with ABF. They are oddball in that they are very social midwater swimmers

Just recently I was considering the idea of turning my Aqua One 620T into a catfish tank, with small species that occupy different regions of the tank...

• K. minor; P. buffei or Hyalobagrus flavus group midwater
• Oxyropsis acutirostra (Tiger Oto, on Kesgrave Tropical Ebay store) group, to add to my Hypoptopoma sp.2
• A group of Synodontis nigriventris
• My current mystery Tanganyikan catfish (Phyllonemus or Laphiobagrus) with some conspecifics if its one of the social species in this group, if not add a group of Sterbai Cories

But I'm concerned P. buffei will be too active for my setup (sounds much better for your 36" long tank) and I'm wary of adding Shadow Catfish with my pair of ABF up top (right now I don't think I can move them to another tank), even if the H. flavus were fine with Southampton water.

Anyway, I'm waffling now...

 

[nmonks]

Chaca species appear to be be obligate piscivores. I'm not aware of anyone keeping them permamently without a live food diet. River shrimps may be taken, but I do recall CFC stating that his specimen ignored them. Approach Chaca spp. with care.

Cheers, Neale

I might change
the Ropefish to a Chaca chaca. Do you think there would be room for
1 Chaca chaca

 

[kizno1]

I might change the Ropefish to a Chaca chaca. Do you think there would be room for
1 Chaca chaca
2 Ctenopoma acutirostre (1 Male, 1 Female)
3 Pantodon buchholz (1 Male, 2 Females)

Or i know its not really oddball but i might go for a big shoal of Pareutropius buffei or Kryptopterus minor and maybe 1 bigger fish as a centre piece.

Rope fish are great i'd deffo go for them

I do like them im just not sure about having 3 in a 30G. My lfs have once about 12" long and they already use all of a 30G so not sure how they would be once the get bigger.

From what I read when researching Ctenopoma acutirostre, buying just two is quite a risk, it has to be one or a group of 3+ (just like Panda Garras, albeit these guys can do nothing like the damage a Ctenopoma can inflict).

I bought a group of five babies (~2.5cm TL) initially mid summer, but one mysteriously vanished without a trace within a few weeks in the Rio240 and then I lost another in early September in the 150g during a horrid ten day period of fishkeeping (I lost two of my Humphead Glassfish, in hindsight almost certainly down to my stupidity of installing a Hydor Magnum 8 powerhead, which recently went into "Seffieuk"'s marine setup). By December, the remaining trio had grown to ~6.5cm TL, when I took what I thought was a big gamble by introducing a ~11cm male Ctenopoma into my 5-footer (he was looking so unhappy in the bare fish store tank and was a steal for £10). Luckily for me, the young trio accepted their "new leader" and they give him plenty of respect, but the equal-sized trio regularly chase each other.
I guess this was the point of my novel, in that they form a hierachy and in a duo the submissive one will probably be constantly bullied and in a 30g, it will have very little room to hide.

I really like the idea of a nice group of P. buffei, with those lovely striped bodies; midwater tight schooling; peaceful nature (much like the smaller Shadow Catfish that I fell in love with recently at Aquajardin, after IDing them at home, but now I'm concerned about how these blackwater fish will do in my gH 14 pH 8.2 tap water). Its worth mentioning that P. buffei loves current, which creates a conflict with ABF. They are oddball in that they are very social midwater swimmers

Just recently I was considering the idea of turning my Aqua One 620T into a catfish tank, with small species that occupy different regions of the tank...

• K. minor; P. buffei or Hyalobagrus flavus group midwater
• Oxyropsis acutirostra (Tiger Oto, on Kesgrave Tropical Ebay store) group, to add to my Hypoptopoma sp.2
• A group of Synodontis nigriventris
• My current mystery Tanganyikan catfish (Phyllonemus or Laphiobagrus) with some conspecifics if its one of the social species in this group, if not add a group of Sterbai Cories

But I'm concerned P. buffei will be too active for my setup (sounds much better for your 36" long tank) and I'm wary of adding Shadow Catfish with my pair of ABF up top (right now I don't think I can move them to another tank), even if the H. flavus were fine with Southampton water.

Anyway, I'm waffling now...

Thanks, Ill stick to the 1 Ctenopoma then because i dont want to risk fighting. I do quite like the Buffei
and think they would look great in a big group with maybe 1 other fish for a centre piece. Do you think a Ctenopoma would be to aggressive to go in with a group of them? One of my lfs normally has K. minor and P. buffei in so i could go for either. How many do you think would work? I was thinking maybe 8-10.
do worry about waffling its interesting to read because you have done a great job with your tanks seeing your 5x2x2 was one of the things thats made me lean more towards oddballs than cichlids.

Chaca species appear to be be obligate piscivores. I'm not aware of anyone keeping them permamently without a live food diet. River shrimps may be taken, but I do recall CFC stating that his specimen ignored them. Approach Chaca spp. with care.

Cheers, Neale

Thanks for the warning. Ill do more research and make sure i have everything i need ready for them if i do go for them.

 

[N0body Of The Goat]

From what I understand and what I've seen so far with my four, Ctenopoma and my other semi-predatory oddballs (Humphead Glassfish, Golden Wonder Panchax) will only threaten smaller fish that they can swallow in one go, which I believe is ~1/3 of their own size and torpedo shaped. Given that P. buffei should reach 7-8cm, they should be quite safe with C. acutirostre, who normally max out at ~13cm in captivity.
By nature, once tankmates are above eating size, Ctenopomas make quite laid back tankmates, spending a lot of the day "chilling" in their favourite bogwood cave or tall plant branch. They pretty much ignore other occupants, much like my Golden Wonder trio, who are oblivious to anything going on below their water surface territory.

As for the size of the P. buffei group, everything I've read suggests you should be looking at ten (10) as a minimum, but in a 30g I'd guestimate that a group of ~15 would not only look great when they school so tightly, but will also give them so much more confidence.

So in conclusion, I reckon a single C. acutirstre as your "centrepiece" fish would be fine with a big group of P. buffei, especially if you create low/high current (~1500-2000lph of water turnover, allowing for real world drop-off from manufacturer ratings) areas of the tank and plenty of bogwood and/or tall leafy plants. You would probably have scope to add a single specimen top and bottom dweller too, if you fancied, says he who is now a little concerned whether his 5x2x2 is now overstocked!

 

[kizno1]

Thanks, I think ill go for 1 Acutirostre and a group of P. buffei that seems a good mix. Its has a Fluval 405 which says it does 1300lph but ho much it actually does it another thing but it does give really good flow around the tank. If im honest i would prefer just to stick to them fish because i think it will look better than having other fish to distract you from them or i might sneak in one syno but dont want any surface dwellers. Thanks for the help

 

[kizno1]

Ive found somewhere that sells "Pareutropius debauwi" for £3 but apparently they are very rarely imported and 90% of the time there just P. buffei.
http/www.tropicalfishfinder.co.uk/stores_productsinfo.asp?store=6&prod=221

I think i might go for a small group of Synodontis nigriventris aswell. I used to have 3 which spawned once but all the eggs got eaten apart from 2 but they got fungus so would love to have another go at breeding them because its one of the few times its been done in an aquarium.

 

[kizno1]

Goat what are your Hyalobagrus flavus like? Would you recommend them? I was just thinking if i went for an Asiam biotope i could go for Kryptopterus minor the Akysis vespa and prashadi and maybe a small shoal of flavus. Maybe a Gourami or something as a centre piece aswell.

 

[N0body Of The Goat]

Goat what are your Hyalobagrus flavus like? Would you recommend them? I was just thinking if i went for an Asiam biotope i could go for Kryptopterus minor the Akysis vespa and prashadi and maybe a small shoal of flavus. Maybe a Gourami or something as a centre piece aswell.

I have decided against the H. flavus for now, they are still at Aquajardin after I IDed them for the manager. There are two main issues that stopped me...

• My pair of ABF in the potential tank. The Shadow Catfish are ~4.5cm SL fully grown (which the shop group is, pretty much), might be absolutey fine, bit wary to risk it at £40 for the group of 8 (they need numbers).
• They come from quite acidic blackwater, pH in the 5 ballpark... Southampton tap water is gH 14 (quite hard) and pH 8.2, I started a post at planetcatfish about this, but yet to get a reply.

http/www.planetcat...?species_id=295

My 620T currently has 2 ABF; 3 Synodontis nigriventris (another 3+ wanted asap); Hypoptopoma sp.2; Phyllonemus/Laphiobagrus ~6cm Tang catfish; 3 Garra flavatra (waiting to go into Rio240 once Lionhead youngsters are rehomed one way or another this week)

Shadow Catfish are lovely little midwater catfish, its almost ironic that these caught my eye after rehoming my Gymnochanda filamentosa to EliseW, whom I struggled with ideas of suitable tankmates. I get the impression that they would not make good tankmates with your Akysis, who need flowing water and a max temp of 22C (but ideally closer to 16C), while H. flavus needs quite still water with a min temp of 22C.

K. minor seems to fit Akysis' profile better, liking areas of current, but apparently you need to be careful that specimens in the store really are K. minor and not the much larger as adults K. bicirrhis.