Nutrafin Co2 Questions/problems

[Tsi_User]

About a week ago I added a Nutrafin CO2 system to our 29 gallon planted tank. Some stuff has gone well, and some hasn't.

Before it was getting 1.6 WPG, weekly liquid ferts.
For the last 8 days it's gotten 2 WPG, weekly liquid ferts, Nutrafin CO2.

The pros so far:
Anarchis has grown 2-3 inches taller
Water Sprite has grown 2 inches taller and alot bushier
Ozelot Sword has gone from this:

To this:

The cons so far:
Java Moss carpet is still growing but not nearly as green
Jungle Val has withered away, although I never had luck with them
Amazon Sword and a couple other plants no longer have Hair Algae, but an easier to remove brown algae growing on them
Alot of bubble build up on the top of the water that makes a film:

also every 2 days or so this white gel-like crud builds up on the bottom of the buble ladder and stops the bubbles from rising properly

I don't know what i'm doing wrong here, but i'm definatley not getting the results I was hoping for
The CO2 itself is being produced alot, here's a pic of the bubble ladder at work with the normal # of bubbles traveling up it:

If anyone can steer me in the right direction here i would appreciate it!

 

[RadaR]

Im sure adding some form of root tab under the plant will help.

 

[three-fingers]

also every 2 days or so this white gel-like crud builds up on the bottom of the bubble ladder and stops the bubbles from rising properly

That's pretty normal, you just have to clean it. You could get a bubble counter too, this is supposed to 'clean' the co2 or something.
Though every 2 days is pretty fast for it to build up

 

[Underwurlde]

The way I see your 'new' problems is like a chain of events (re the plants).

Initially your tank up to now has been CO2 limited and to a lesser extent, light limited. For this reason, your plants have not grown.

Suddenly, you have increased the lighting..
..so now the plants need carbon, so CO2 is required..
..you've given them CO2, they have carbon, they attempt to grow..
..you've been dosing ferts, so the plants have probably stored some 'good stuff' because up to now they've not been growing due to CO2 & light limited.
..but now they've got that, so they grow, using reserve & weekly dosing ferts, & possibly substate nutrients etc.

...BUT

..but now I belive they're running out of the NEXT limiting thing, i.e. a nutrient(s) - this is evident becasue some of your plants are showing signs of difficencies.

So my obvious quesion is:
1) what's your substate?
2) What liquid fert are you using?

Cheers,

Andy

 

[Tsi_User]

RadaR and Underwurlde- Right now its dosed with Seachem Flourish and there's a flourite substrate in there also.

three-fingers - So that white goo regularly builds up? eww.. lol

 

[Underwurlde]

...SeaChem is a good choice.

You are now trying to find the right balance for dosing of ferts for your tank, and this must come from the water column (or indeed from root tabs). Your plants, as they are telling you now, are providing the visual feedback of what they need for this balance.

Looking at the picture of the Ozelot Sword, am I correct in seeing a yellowing of the leaf tips and 2 spots of yellowing discolouration? If so, this indicates to me that a mobile form of nutrient may be lacking (that is to say, stored good stuff in old leaves is being moved to somewhere else, say new leaves, resulting in degradation). Mobile nutrients are Magnesium, nitrogen, phosphate, potassium.

These are present in SeaChem Flourish (indeed the only thing that I can see that is actually lacking in SeaChem Flourish is Nickel), however only as trace. I would be tempted to at least try extra dosing for Nitrate (N) and Potassium (K) (and to a lesser extent phosphate (P)).

Perhaps others could chip in and confirm / deny this before you go this route though, as I find this kind of stuff a bit difficult to diagonse.

As for the froth on the surface of your water, I am at a loss I'm afraid.

Cheers,

Andy

 

[Tsi_User]

I get what you're saying, makes sense to me

Right now i'm dosing the usual amount of Flourish once a week (right after water changes)

How much more do you suggest I dose and when?

 

[mikey12421]

I get what you're saying, makes sense to me

Right now i'm dosing the usual amount of Flourish once a week (right after water changes)

How much more do you suggest I dose and when?

What filter are you using?

I'm afraid the crud buildup on the ladder is just one of those things...I have three separate ladders across two different planted tanks and all three have that problem. You just have to clean it I'm afraid...

 

[Tsi_User]

I get what you're saying, makes sense to me

Right now i'm dosing the usual amount of Flourish once a week (right after water changes)

How much more do you suggest I dose and when?

What filter are you using?

I'm afraid the crud buildup on the ladder is just one of those things...I have three separate ladders across two different planted tanks and all three have that problem. You just have to clean it I'm afraid...

A whisper 40

 

[Tsi_User]

I'm going to start adding more ferts 2 and 4 days after the main fert dosage (right after water changes) but does anyone else have ideas/suggestions?

 

[mikey12421]

I'm going to start adding more ferts 2 and 4 days after the main fert dosage (right after water changes) but does anyone else have ideas/suggestions?

Is your water level high enough to prevent your filter from spashing too much? Hang over the back filters tend to drive off C02 if they create too much water disturbance.

Also, it is my understanding (could be wrong) that the Whisper 40 uses some biomedia. You might want to try removing that and using it only as a mechanical filter. Your plants should do a good job of filtering on their own and you won't run the risk of the biomedia taking out maco nutrients the plants need to thrive.

Personally it doesn't sound to me like there is anything that wrong. You just upped your light 8 or 10 days ago. Before that I can't imagine that the c02 was doing you much good. At less than 2.0 wpg it really doesn't make that much of a difference. Similarly your algae problems could have been attributed to the dosing of ferts in low light/low growth. I'd sit on this 2.0 wpg, c02, regular dosing of ferts for a couple of weeks. I imagine you will soon see marked improvement.

 

[three-fingers]

Also, it is my understanding (could be wrong) that the Whisper 40 uses some biomedia. You might want to try removing that and using it only as a mechanical filter. Your plants should do a good job of filtering on their own and you won't run the risk of the biomedia taking out maco nutrients the plants need to thrive.

By 'biomedia' do you mean chemical filtration like carbon? Or the sponge/ceramic type for bacteria colonisation? Because chemical filtration can take away nutrients but the bacteria in the filter wont, they just convert the ammonia into nitrites and the nitrites into nitrates.
Plants can use up any one of those three nitrogenous compounds, and they wont be in shortage if you have fish in the tank.

 

[mikey12421]

Also, it is my understanding (could be wrong) that the Whisper 40 uses some biomedia. You might want to try removing that and using it only as a mechanical filter. Your plants should do a good job of filtering on their own and you won't run the risk of the biomedia taking out maco nutrients the plants need to thrive.

By 'biomedia' do you mean chemical filtration like carbon? Or the sponge/ceramic type for bacteria colonisation? Because chemical filtration can take away nutrients but the bacteria in the filter wont, they just convert the ammonia into nitrites and the nitrites into nitrates.
Plants can use up any one of those three nitrogenous compounds, and they wont be in shortage if you have fish in the tank.

I meant chemical and things like a bio-wheel or bio-balls which vastly increase the surface area available for nitrifying bacteria, which then out-compete the plants for nutrients.

I could be wrong, but I've always heard it said that it is best not to use bacterial enhancers such as these in the planted tank.

 

[Underwurlde]

^^^ Replys to that should be interesting....

Anyway.
Mon: dose SeaChem (or your own PMDD) NPK.
Tue: dose SecChem Flourish
Wed: dose SeaChem (or your own PMDD) NPK.
Thur: dose SecChem Flourish
Fri: dose SeaChem (or your own PMDD) NPK.
Sat: 50% (min) water change - dose nothing
Sun: do nothing.

EI in a nutshell

Andy

 

[Tsi_User]

^^^ Replys to that should be interesting....

Anyway.
Mon: dose SeaChem (or your own PMDD) NPK.
Tue: dose SecChem Flourish
Wed: dose SeaChem (or your own PMDD) NPK.
Thur: dose SecChem Flourish
Fri: dose SeaChem (or your own PMDD) NPK.
Sat: 50% (min) water change - dose nothing
Sun: do nothing.

EI in a nutshell

Andy

Sorry I'm still kind of a plant noob, what does PMDD and NPK mean?