No Drop In Ammonia?

[Esoe]

OK, I've wanted a tropical tank for ages and finally the kids persuaded me to get one!
Bought it on eBay and filled it with water straightaway as well as other bits and pieces.
It was a cold water tank previously so I brought a heater - but I was told the filter was new (2 weeks old), so once I had the heater I proceeded along the lines of fishless cycling (having googled it, ended up here and followed the tips!)

A friend gave me a bottle of Ammonia they'd used for their tank, so I know in theory that works.
I put in an amount that I'd read would be fine for my tank (it's a 60L tank), and it's had it for 3 weeks now - with no sign of dropping levels.
The Ammonia is still off the scale and when I test for nitrites or nitrates there's no change from day 1.

What do I need to do to get the process kicked off properly? I am sure I am missing something obvious.

Thanks.

 

[Gazanimal]

When you say you put in the amount of ammonia that you read would be fine? How much was it?

Also, how are you testing your water & what are the current levels?

 

[BigbruiserAl]

What is the strength of the ammonia, how much in ML did you add and what is the tank temp?

 

[Esoe]

What is the strength of the ammonia, how much in ML did you add and what is the tank temp?

I recall it was just less than 5ml and the current reading using the NH4 JBL Test kit is off the scale (so over 5ppm)
The water temp is 23C.

Having said that I've just followed a different link on this site and found a calculator that shows I should have used just over 3ml - is that all the problem is - so a cycle should start it going? I'd have thought I'd have seen something even with a little too much ammonia.
The ammonia is from Homebase and 9.5%

Thanks for the help!

 

[Aqua Tom]

It sounds as though you have dosed a bit high. It is only a 60 litre so why not do a 100% water change & try again? It should be 3.16ml of 9.5% ammonia solution for that size of tank.
I would put in 3ml, wait 20 mins then test, that way you should get just below 5ppm which is the hot zone.

Tom

 

[BigbruiserAl]

I would partly agree do a water change but i would suggest 50% change and turn the heater up to 28c during the fishless cycle

 

[OldMan47]

Welcome to the forum Esoe.
I would go back to your friend and ask them for a sample of their filter media. Any filter that starts out with a nice sample of mature filter media seems to be ready for fish in a week to maybe 10 days.
Do a 50% water change to drop your ammonia concentration below 5 ppm and ask your friend for that filter media starter. As long as they do not give you more than about 30% of their own filter media, their filter will continue to process biological nitrogen just fine for them. In the meanwhile your starter sample will quickly multiply to populate your filter.

 

[Esoe]

Welcome to the forum Esoe.
I would go back to your friend and ask them for a sample of their filter media. Any filter that starts out with a nice sample of mature filter media seems to be ready for fish in a week to maybe 10 days.
Do a 50% water change to drop your ammonia concentration below 5 ppm and ask your friend for that filter media starter. As long as they do not give you more than about 30% of their own filter media, their filter will continue to process biological nitrogen just fine for them. In the meanwhile your starter sample will quickly multiply to populate your filter.

Thanks for this - I've done a 50% (well just a bit more) water change and the level of ammonia is now between 1.5 and 3 (my scale doesn't do in between those!) - so I will monitor this and talk to my friend about the filter media.

 

[pingu1997]

Welcome to the forum Esoe.
I would go back to your friend and ask them for a sample of their filter media. Any filter that starts out with a nice sample of mature filter media seems to be ready for fish in a week to maybe 10 days.
Do a 50% water change to drop your ammonia concentration below 5 ppm and ask your friend for that filter media starter. As long as they do not give you more than about 30% of their own filter media, their filter will continue to process biological nitrogen just fine for them. In the meanwhile your starter sample will quickly multiply to populate your filter.

Thanks for this - I've done a 50% (well just a bit more) water change and the level of ammonia is now between 1.5 and 3 (my scale doesn't do in between those!) - so I will monitor this and talk to my friend about the filter media.

Hello Esoe, yeah come round for a bit of filter media, I've got some spare
Corinnex

 

[Esoe]

Welcome to the forum Esoe.
I would go back to your friend and ask them for a sample of their filter media. Any filter that starts out with a nice sample of mature filter media seems to be ready for fish in a week to maybe 10 days.
Do a 50% water change to drop your ammonia concentration below 5 ppm and ask your friend for that filter media starter. As long as they do not give you more than about 30% of their own filter media, their filter will continue to process biological nitrogen just fine for them. In the meanwhile your starter sample will quickly multiply to populate your filter.

Thanks for this - I've done a 50% (well just a bit more) water change and the level of ammonia is now between 1.5 and 3 (my scale doesn't do in between those!) - so I will monitor this and talk to my friend about the filter media.

Hello Esoe, yeah come round for a bit of filter media, I've got some spare
Corinnex

OK, Thanks to Corrine I have part of her filter media. Before the media went in (after I did a 60% water change) the Ammonia level was about 3. 24 hours later, after the media has been in, it is just over 1.
So the question is - do I put the full 3.16ml in to bring it up to 5ppm+the 1 it already has - or wait til it goes to 0, or put about 2ml?

Thanks for the assistance.

 

[Owen386]

Whats up,


Wait Till it Goes to Zero, and make Sure you Are Using good Dechlorinator with your tap water I suggest Prime. Good Luck With Cycle.


-Owen

 

[Esoe]

OK, it seems to be going well (albeit slowly!).
I've read that if you don't put fish into a cycled tank - you need to keep feeding it Ammonia to keep the bacteria happy.
The question is - when your ammonia drops to 0 - do you have a set time frame to add more ammonia/fish or do the bacteria stay alive for a while first? i.e. if it's dropping to 0 after 12 hours, but you tested after 24 - would you have wasted your cycle?

Hope that makes sense!

 

[BigbruiserAl]

If your tank can break down 4ppm of ammonia and Nitrite in 12 hours and can do so day in day out for 7 days after the fishless cycle. Do a 90% water change in the morning/afternoon add fish next day so roughly 24hrs later

 

[OldMan47]

If you get down to a zero ammonia quickly, just dose back to almost any value between 2 and 5 ppm. This is biology, not physics, so as long as you are in the ball park your cycle will progress just fine. You do not want to add too much because that can cause the wrong ammonia processors to dominate your bacterial culture. Until you get a good enough bacterial culture to drop 4 or 5 ppm of ammonia to zero and not leave behind any nitrites, you are not done cycling that filter.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

If you get down to a zero ammonia quickly, just dose back to almost any value between 2 and 5 ppm. This is biology, not physics, so as long as you are in the ball park your cycle will progress just fine. You do not want to add too much because that can cause the wrong ammonia processors to dominate your bacterial culture. Until you get a good enough bacterial culture to drop 4 or 5 ppm of ammonia to zero and not leave behind any nitrites, you are not done cycling that filter.

I like physics better!