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Nitrate In Tap Water 25-30 What Are Options

what can i say didnt think i would get so many wonderful detailed explainations. such a good read.
i will look at the Elodea nuttallii plant and hope it doesnt get eaten.
also its a fight thats hard to win as IE
you have water at 50ppm before water change and change 30-40 % of the water and add tap water around 30ppm you dont make much progress.
 
can i ask if its likely if constant high ish nitrate will stop fish growing as fast as they normally would
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I would say i change 30-40% water every 7 days.
i am certain that i am understocked in tank 2 and have the same issue  as tank 1,
 
I will cut feeding a little and see what occurs.
 
(forgot to mention i have loads of plants in tank 2)
tank 1 has purigen added as i read it will lower nitrates etc too , but made water clearer and thats it.
 
i will look at the Elodea nuttallii plant and hope it doesnt get eaten
 
 
This was just a study reference, not meant to suggest this plant for your tanks.  This is not always a good plant in tropical aquaria as it does best in cooler water.  It is a "weed" in the wild here in North America.
 
you have water at 50ppm before water change and change 30-40 % of the water and add tap water around 30ppm you dont make much progress
 
 
There are two issues here.  First is the initial tap water, and I will leave that for someone with experience dealing with this to comment.  Second is the accruing nitrate from week to week from the tank itself, and that you should be able to lessen with not overfeeding, substantial water changes, sometimes plants.  I would up your water changes to no less than 50%, preferably closer to 60%.  I have been changing this amount in all my tanks for years.
 
can i ask if its likely if constant high ish nitrate will stop fish growing as fast as they normally would 
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Yes and no.  The high nitrate will affect the fish in some manner.  As we have been saying in this thread, it is difficult to pin this down precisely, such as one can do with ammonia and nitrite, and there are several factors.  But there should be no doubt that the higher the nitrate remains, the more detrimentally it will affect the fish over time.
 
tank 1 has purigen added as i read it will lower nitrates etc too , but made water clearer and thats it.
 
 
I've never used Purigen, but from the data on Seachem's website I would not think it to be of much use here.  It is intended to adsorb [rather than absorb] ammonia, nitrite and nitrate, but presumably when these are being produced in the aquarium, not in the source water.  However, as you are using it, and still see nitrates rise by 20 ppm, I would have to question its effectiveness even for this.  It also needs to be regenerated as the instructions describe.  It does remove some trace elements needed by plants.  Normally I suggest not using chemical filtration in planted tanks for this very reason, that some beneficial nutrients are likely being removed, but one needs to weigh this with the end result if there was a significant reduction in nitrate...which here there doesn't seem to be.

Something else occurs to me, and that is to ask if you have confirmed the tap water nitrates with your municipal water authority?  You mention the API kit...someone already mentioned about being careful to thoroughly shake the regents, and I can add that Regent #2 needs a good two minutes of shaking before adding the drops or the reading is often faulty.  If you can track down your water authority's website, it should have nitrate numbers posted, or you can ask them directly.  It would be worth confirming your test results, or not as the case may be.
 
I will up water changes to 60% ta  , is there an actual recommended water change maximum level.
what surfice plants would be good for nitrate ?
I will try and find details on the water company too. good idea thanks
I have used numerous test kits with same results.
 
got details of water in my area:   not sure what some mean ?
 
nitrite  0.0038
Nitrate average 19.2    max 27.4
 
chloride 47   ???
Ammonium                       0.07   ????
arsenic 1     gulp
Alkalinity                        354       not sure what this means
 
plus lots of other details but not sure if any others are relevant
 
OK, we are getting somewhere now.  To the questions in post #18, starting with water changes.
 
Fish in an aquarium are continually "polluting" the water in several ways.  They remove some minerals from it, they add urine to it, they release pheromones and allomones, the waste they produce adds more pollution, etc.  Filtration on its own cannot deal with all this; water changes are the only method we have in an aquarium.  Water changes should be once a week minimum, and I do 50-60% of my tanks' volume.  Provided the parameters (GH and pH and temperature) are reasonably the same between the tap water and tank water, this can do no harm.  The more water you change, the better, in some senses, but we needn't go to extremes.  Changing this significant amount regularly works to maintain a more stable biological system.  When one does less frequent water changes, there is more degeneration in the tank water, so the changes when fresh water enters are more significant, and this is detrimental to fish and plants.
 
Any surface plants will help generally.  Surface plants are fast growing because they are close to the light source, and they can take in CO2 from the air which is much faster than plants that are submerged, and there is a greater supply of CO2 in the air than in the water.  Provided they obtain sufficient nutrients from the water via their roots and leaves, they will grow fast.  And this uses more ammonia, which helps reduce nitrates, plus other benefits.
 
Now to the water data in post #19.  Nitrate is given as 19.2 average (max at 27.4).  Do they say what unit of measurement they are using?  In NA most water authorities use mg/l which equates to ppm.  We also need to know if this is NO3-N or just NO3 as TTA detailed previously; I would assume the former, but this is just a guess.  Now that we have an official (and likely more accurate) number, it would be worth doing your nitrate test on the tap water alone to see how it compares.  Remember to thoroughly shake the regents, following the instructions for the test you use.  The benefit of doing this will mean that tests on the tank water can be assumed reliable; if you get vastly different results for the tap water, we may have other issues like a faulty kit or testing.
 
Don't worry about nitrite and ammonium, they are so low as to be insignificant.  Alkalinity is the carbonate hardness (KH), and here again we need to know the scale they are using; I would assume mg/l or ppm again.  If so, this number is high which means your pH is not likely to fluctuate but remain as it comes out of the tap.  You probably have moderately hard to hard water (the GH), with this KH.
 
Byron.
 
The  Alkalinity  uses  mgHCO3/l and was 354   (76 test average)
i tested and GH was 19.6 and KH 14  , which was 350ppm ish on my test.  so matches i think
 
chloride was mgCl/l
They used mgNO3/l for nirate. (76 test average)
 
my PH is 7.7 .  (yes always shown around this figure for a while)
 
my tap water nitrate test showed 30 ppm.  (so maybe only 3 out)
 
As i say I will up water changes to 60% (every 7 days) but feel even this will leave nitrate well above where i would like it.
 
Byron and everyone who has given input , it is much appriciated, thanks
 
 
is there not a filter unit i can add to tank flow or even something to the external filter.
 
clivealive said:
what ya think:
 
Presumably this is related to your question on what you can do to deal with nitrates in the source (tap) water.  I regret I can't help with this as I've never had to go down this particular road.  I'm sure we have members here who have and hopefully they will see this and comment.  TTA did refer to this in one of his previous posts, you might want to PM him for further info.
 
Byron.
 
thanks mate for ur help
had a call from water company today , telling me they dont intend to change nitrate amounts in the water .   how funny's that that they called.
 
so what are my best options for lowering tap water before it goes in tank ?
or lowering water in tank with nitrate reducer without it costing a fortune and having to replace every week etc
 
Removing nitrate from one's tap is not a simple easy matter. It can be done several ways, but all have a financial and/or space cost.
 
There is nitrate removing media you can add to a filter.
You can plant the tank. Plants which root in the substrate will cause major changes in what goes on in one's substrate especially in trms of denitrification.
You can set up a separate veggie filter- a tank filled with nitrate loving plants. It can either be used to pretreat changing water or like a sump on the tank itself.
You can take steps to promote denitrifying bacteria either in your filter or in a special filter dedicated for this purpose.
 
Denitrifying bacteria normally live in the very same biofilm that hosts the nitrifying bacteria. These are actually a type of anaerobic bacteria called facultative. This means they can switch what they do and can so they also can live aerobically. What happens in the biofilm as water penetrates it and moves deeper into it, a host of aerobic bacteria use the oxygen. When there are enough oxygen users built up what happens is they manage to use all of the free oxygen in the water and what they leave in its place is nitrate. So now the facultative anaerobes find themselves in what has become anaerobic part of the biofilm. When there is no free oxygen, they will then switch to using the Nitrate as an electron donor. And the result of all this is the nitrate is broken apart and the nitrogen is released. It then exits the water as the harmless gas that makes up much of our atmosphere.
 
So every tank has some level of denitrification happening. But usually this natural amount denitrification is not enough to keep up with the amount of nitrate coming in via ones tap and being produced in one's tank. It is possible to use filter and media types designed to foster the growth or more denitrifiers. But this involves larger amounts of media than most normally use and a slower flow rate through it. Most of the filters we use have too high a flow rate and lack the proper media porosity to optimize the colonization of denitrifiers. Canisters are better for this than other filter types. Sumps can be even better. Cleaning ones media of the brown goop also discourages them. Most filters do not have either enough media nor the proper porosity. They still do an excellent job of keeping our tanks clean when we keep up with our maintenance. We need to keep things flowing and the less media one has, the faster it can clog. Another way to deal with all this is to use a Hamburg Matten Filter. These are huge foam blocks through which water passes fairly slowly.
 
Finally, depending on the other water parameters involved and the needs of a given tank, one can reduce nitrate and other things one needs to reduce in their water by micing one's tap with ro or ro/di water. but this will dilute everything, not just the nitrate.
 
For most of us fw keepers, nitrate is not normally a problem as long as we do our water changes. However, when nitrate is in one's tap this can become an issue. The other problem is the fact that  hobby grade nitrate test kits are pretty poor. They tend to be least accurate in the 0- 20 ppm range. But they can give different results based on how well one does all the shaking of the reagents and the test tubes. Two keepers can use the same brand kit to test the same water and get two different readings.
 
Depending on how large a tank you have will determine the most effective way to deal with too much nitrate. The nitrate removing media used to remove it is not too costly as long as the amount of water involved is not great.
 
Here is another interesting method for dealing with nitrate (and phosphate) but which is not cheap but is "natural"- http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/control-nitrate-phosphate
 
been looking at reactors and media in the UK , really difficult to decide.
I would like something that does around 200L , not too expensive and easy to setup and use.
I would like it to go in the cabinet
 
ok how about

TMC V2 Bio Fluidised Sand Bed Filter 600 with bio pearls instead of sand, just not sure what pump and how /where to install it
 
what ya think
 

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