That's supposed to be done on Fridays.
Temperature Sensitivity Question
- Thread starter gwand
- Start date
That's supposed to be done on Fridays.
Ceez
Fish Crazy
OP
OP
I purchased a coil on Amazon. It arrives Monday. I will give it a test run then. Thanks for the idea.
Expertise comes with some drawbacks...
As a former manager of country wide deployment of remote operated surveillance system...
I can tell you, the best, are completely nuts. Once you master the psychology of working with these guys. They are the most productive you can ever get.
When a guy installs a hot wheel race track in his office and plays with it for 3 days.. @96 grands a year... You start to wonder...
But I'm a loose guy, let everything go.. And his delivery was outstanding... Why ? He was happy, no one bugged him and he was way on top of his duty...
So technically speaking this kind of expertise on a forum for free, could have some repercussions.
Since reaching the level involved requires somewhat profound insanity... MTS alone is proving it.
I find the behaviors of the peoples here are pretty normal.
As a former manager of country wide deployment of remote operated surveillance system...
I can tell you, the best, are completely nuts. Once you master the psychology of working with these guys. They are the most productive you can ever get.
When a guy installs a hot wheel race track in his office and plays with it for 3 days.. @96 grands a year... You start to wonder...
But I'm a loose guy, let everything go.. And his delivery was outstanding... Why ? He was happy, no one bugged him and he was way on top of his duty...
So technically speaking this kind of expertise on a forum for free, could have some repercussions.
Since reaching the level involved requires somewhat profound insanity... MTS alone is proving it.
I find the behaviors of the peoples here are pretty normal.
Rusty_Shackleford
Fish Fanatic
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Some say genius, some say insane.
. Some fish are particulalry sensitive but most aren't.fishorama
Fishaholic
I don't worry about a 3-4F drop for water changes, even in my unheated tanks. But maybe my fish are not as sensitive as yours?
If it drops 4F with a 25%, it could be a problem with larger water changes. While there's no single hard rule, a rapid temperature change of more than a few degrees can potentially stress fish and make them more susceptible to disease.
I try to have always water that is slightly warmer than in the tank. A cold shift can trigger an ICH outbreak out of no where.
I try to have always water that is slightly warmer than in the tank. A cold shift can trigger an ICH outbreak out of no where.
TwoTankAmin
Fish Connoisseur
Most fish do not live in water that is of uniform temperature. This can be sdue to any number of reasons. Water of any depth will have gradient such that the deeper the water the cooler it is. Fish can swim up and down freely. In some places there are seasonal differences. To get my plecos to spawn I will get then loving in water just over 90F and then drop the tank by close to 10°F in a matter of miute and
then repeat the process within another 24- 36 hours and drop it another 5°-7°F. This does not harm the fish.
Next, I love reading research papers. One of the areas I wished to investigate was acclimating fish. There is little science on how to do this for general conditions, But what I learned in that respect was ytue acclimation where the internal systems of the fish change somewhat to adapt does not happen in a matter kof hours or even a few days. It takes a week or two. Wgen research experiments are set up the fish are acquired and then allowed to acclimate in the lab for some time before the onset of the experiment.
What I was able to find dealt with temperature. Here most of the science was dedicated to determining the lethal temperatures, both high and low, which would kill a given species. It also involved learning the behavioral symptoms the fish would show when the temperature was at the lethal line. A lot of fish have died to get the answers.
But, I came across a study where the researchers posed abother question. The asked if we identify a fish behaving in a way that it will soon be dead, what can be done to prevent this? And the answer was the exact opposite of what we read and hear so many pklaces on the net that hold themselves out as having accurate information. The first thois we need to understadn is that almost no species need to be in an exact temperature, What they do need is to be withing a give range, As long as they are in that range it doesn't much matter where in that range they are as they will be OK.
So, you find your tank with the heater stucj full on and the tmeperature is too high for the fish. You can see they are struggling. The way you save them is to get them back into water within their normal range ASAP. Do not acclimate, do not lower the temperature gradually, move them into the right range as fast as you can. This is the best chance one has to save the fish. The same works when dealing with the problem being one of temperatures that are too low.
A few years back I was selling in the vendor room of the NEC annual weekend event. This was normally held in late March or very early April. I am normally setting up Thursday night and am ready to open the next morning. Not all vendors arrive that earl. There was a discus vendor with a fancy van woith a buily in container for the discus which was heated and filtered. They arrived on Sat. mornong and were have a huge issue. The heating system for the container failed and there was a freak snow happening. When they arrived they were in a panic.
Wnd they began trying to acclimate the discus slowely to warmer water. I knew they were going to lose a lot of fish doing this. So, I politely explained to them tthat they really needed to get theor fish warmed ASAP and I explained why based on the paper. The were somewhat rude in telling me I had no clue and they were discus experts. Not very much time later they had lost about 75% of the fish.
I have had two heater failures where tanks grossly over heated. In the first case I lose a coupld of wild discus and a small school of rummy nose tetras. The tank was at 104°F. But there were 5 Hypancistrus L450 plecos in the tank I was growing out with the intention of having them spawn. They were all hunkered won in caves and alive. I fished out the dead fish took out 1/2 of the water and refilled the tank to get the temp o=into the low 80s as fast as I could. About two weeks later I got the first spawn from those plecos.
My second overheat was in my L236 breeding tank and the temp went to about 118 and wipes out everything.
So, if you are doing things that change the water temperature, as long as you keep it withing the rang for the fish in the tank, you can pretty much npt wrrry about things. I am lucky in that I have great well water. I can refill my tanks from the tap at a desired temp.in some cases. But my normal practice is to fill big cans with water and then pump from there. I do this for 2 reasons. My well water has a lot of dissolved CO2. The process of filling the cans removes the excess but it also oxygenates the changing water well. I run the pump with the return going back into the big 32 gal can. So it aggitates the surfacesnf oxygenates the water well. My fish love their new water as a result.
Two final observations. Temperature ranges for any species can vary but there is also a variability in terms of the life stage of the fish, In general when very recently 'born" or when it their reproductive years the tolerance range oif many fish os smaller than at other life statges. So, it is important to know the ranges of any species you put into a tank in general and if your are wspaning them, then also for th life stages most relevant here.
Most of the ongoing research on ththis topic is now concentrated on the potential effects of global warming on the ability of species to survie. About 3 billion people on the planet currently rely on fish as a primary food. If the warming of ocean and fresh water bodies is happening and it causes the mass die off of many s[ecies of fish.............
then repeat the process within another 24- 36 hours and drop it another 5°-7°F. This does not harm the fish.
Next, I love reading research papers. One of the areas I wished to investigate was acclimating fish. There is little science on how to do this for general conditions, But what I learned in that respect was ytue acclimation where the internal systems of the fish change somewhat to adapt does not happen in a matter kof hours or even a few days. It takes a week or two. Wgen research experiments are set up the fish are acquired and then allowed to acclimate in the lab for some time before the onset of the experiment.
What I was able to find dealt with temperature. Here most of the science was dedicated to determining the lethal temperatures, both high and low, which would kill a given species. It also involved learning the behavioral symptoms the fish would show when the temperature was at the lethal line. A lot of fish have died to get the answers.
But, I came across a study where the researchers posed abother question. The asked if we identify a fish behaving in a way that it will soon be dead, what can be done to prevent this? And the answer was the exact opposite of what we read and hear so many pklaces on the net that hold themselves out as having accurate information. The first thois we need to understadn is that almost no species need to be in an exact temperature, What they do need is to be withing a give range, As long as they are in that range it doesn't much matter where in that range they are as they will be OK.
So, you find your tank with the heater stucj full on and the tmeperature is too high for the fish. You can see they are struggling. The way you save them is to get them back into water within their normal range ASAP. Do not acclimate, do not lower the temperature gradually, move them into the right range as fast as you can. This is the best chance one has to save the fish. The same works when dealing with the problem being one of temperatures that are too low.
A few years back I was selling in the vendor room of the NEC annual weekend event. This was normally held in late March or very early April. I am normally setting up Thursday night and am ready to open the next morning. Not all vendors arrive that earl. There was a discus vendor with a fancy van woith a buily in container for the discus which was heated and filtered. They arrived on Sat. mornong and were have a huge issue. The heating system for the container failed and there was a freak snow happening. When they arrived they were in a panic.
Wnd they began trying to acclimate the discus slowely to warmer water. I knew they were going to lose a lot of fish doing this. So, I politely explained to them tthat they really needed to get theor fish warmed ASAP and I explained why based on the paper. The were somewhat rude in telling me I had no clue and they were discus experts. Not very much time later they had lost about 75% of the fish.
I have had two heater failures where tanks grossly over heated. In the first case I lose a coupld of wild discus and a small school of rummy nose tetras. The tank was at 104°F. But there were 5 Hypancistrus L450 plecos in the tank I was growing out with the intention of having them spawn. They were all hunkered won in caves and alive. I fished out the dead fish took out 1/2 of the water and refilled the tank to get the temp o=into the low 80s as fast as I could. About two weeks later I got the first spawn from those plecos.
My second overheat was in my L236 breeding tank and the temp went to about 118 and wipes out everything.
So, if you are doing things that change the water temperature, as long as you keep it withing the rang for the fish in the tank, you can pretty much npt wrrry about things. I am lucky in that I have great well water. I can refill my tanks from the tap at a desired temp.in some cases. But my normal practice is to fill big cans with water and then pump from there. I do this for 2 reasons. My well water has a lot of dissolved CO2. The process of filling the cans removes the excess but it also oxygenates the changing water well. I run the pump with the return going back into the big 32 gal can. So it aggitates the surfacesnf oxygenates the water well. My fish love their new water as a result.
Two final observations. Temperature ranges for any species can vary but there is also a variability in terms of the life stage of the fish, In general when very recently 'born" or when it their reproductive years the tolerance range oif many fish os smaller than at other life statges. So, it is important to know the ranges of any species you put into a tank in general and if your are wspaning them, then also for th life stages most relevant here.
Most of the ongoing research on ththis topic is now concentrated on the potential effects of global warming on the ability of species to survie. About 3 billion people on the planet currently rely on fish as a primary food. If the warming of ocean and fresh water bodies is happening and it causes the mass die off of many s[ecies of fish.............
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