Newly Cycling Tank Is This Brown Algae?

[Byron]

What I was asking about was comparatively how much of a biofilm develops on the carbon pouch as opposed to the ceramic "Biologicals".
Further if the Carbon could absorb any of the "starter media, and food" from the TSS.
 

 
I think TTA did respond to the first question, his points 1, 2 and 3 deal with this.  And while not an exact answer, this is probably as close as one can get to an exact answer.  The bacteria will choose their "home" according to the situation in each aquarium.
 
To the second question, yes, I would maintain that carbon might remove some useful things in cycling.  Carbon should not be used with live plants because it removes dissolved organics, a prime source of carbon.  Similarly here I would assume it might take some of the same substances that might be needed by bacteria as TTA mentioned.

I am just wondering if the risk of damage to my plants going up to 2 -3ppm of Ammonia is worth it to try to squeeze out that extra capacity of Bacteria I may never need given I will likely be starting with 6 fish less than an inch.
The only question now is do I need to bother with the 2ppm dose considering its a 12G planted tank and I'm probably going to start with no more than small endlers.
 

 
I previously suggested not to be adding more ammonia, and I still maintain the same.  I accept that one has to be careful with less experienced aquarists recommending no cycling as such, but the proven fact remains that it does work.  With sufficient plants (and you have these now), and only a few initial fish, there cannot be any cycling-related issues for the fish.  I have done this dozens of times.
 
Byron.

 

[cl3537]

 

What I was asking about was comparatively how much of a biofilm develops on the carbon pouch as opposed to the ceramic "Biologicals".
Further if the Carbon could absorb any of the "starter media, and food" from the TSS.
 

 
I think TTA did respond to the first question, his points 1, 2 and 3 deal with this.  And while not an exact answer, this is probably as close as one can get to an exact answer.  The bacteria will choose their "home" according to the situation in each aquarium.
 
To the second question, yes, I would maintain that carbon might remove some useful things in cycling.  Carbon should not be used with live plants because it removes dissolved organics, a prime source of carbon.  Similarly here I would assume it might take some of the same substances that might be needed by bacteria as TTA mentioned.

I am just wondering if the risk of damage to my plants going up to 2 -3ppm of Ammonia is worth it to try to squeeze out that extra capacity of Bacteria I may never need given I will likely be starting with 6 fish less than an inch.
The only question now is do I need to bother with the 2ppm dose considering its a 12G planted tank and I'm probably going to start with no more than small endlers.
 

 
I previously suggested not to be adding more ammonia, and I still maintain the same.  I accept that one has to be careful with less experienced aquarists recommending no cycling as such, but the proven fact remains that it does work.  With sufficient plants (and you have these now), and only a few initial fish, there cannot be any cycling-related issues for the fish.  I have done this dozens of times.
 
Byron.
 


Given your comments above, I'll remove the Charcoal and add another bag of ceramics into the filter, never know when I might use the second bag to seed a new tank for my nephews.
 
Looks like the tank is ready to add fish thank-you for the time and advice.

 

[cl3537]

Sorry to take up your time trying to explain things you already knew. But if your knew it all, why does this thread even exist?
 
Just one last note, one amazon sword outgrows a 75 gallon tank. Good luck with them in your 12 gals. Here is one I had to remove from one of my 75 gal tanks:
 

TTA I apologize I do appreciate your help, it must be a thankless job repeating the same stuff over and over again even on top of the well written FAQ.
I should have confined by question to the Brown/Grey Algae in this thread.
 
Thanks again for your time and advice I've pretty much followed it since the beginning. I suspect I don't have sufficient light in the tank to grow swords quickly and they seem to be browning on the edges a little bit. I can't tell the reason(light, nutrients, melting from the move) but none of the 3 sword plants I put in seem to have grown much at all in 2 weeks. In contrast the Bacopa is thriving as it is more in the centre of the tank and I suspect it will have to be cut back weekly or biweekly once it grows to the top of the tank.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Swords make a lot of roots and like to have ferts in the substrate. When they are initially put into a tank or transplanted, the first thing they do is work to establish their roots. Once they are settled in and happy, they should grow. If when you get them and they have long roots, it helps to trim them back before planting. It tends to stimulate root growth and I have seen it also result in swords that are not too small to send up runners as a result of the whole process. This is more typical in an established tank that has had time to build up mulm in the substrate or else which has specialized soil/substrate etc. for this purpose.
 
i usually tell people new to plants to use the Tropica site as a good resource. You should poke around here when you have some time http/tropica.com/en/guide/make-your-aquarium-a-success/

 

[cl3537]

Do you think its necessary to get Root Tabs or Aqueous Fluorish for the swords? All I have is API leaf zone (only added 1 capful ever when I put in the plants 2 weeks ago)  I read some posts by Byron that this may be insufficient.

 

[LilyRose Tank]

Hi Jordan, swords don't tend to need root tabs. You have a low light tank so things will move along very very slowly. For example. When I bought my FLUVAL 90L I changed the bulbs out to be a 6,500 K bulb and the sword grew to full size in a matter of two months. When you have a low light system you can't expect the plant to respond quickly. The reason the Bacopa is growing fast is that it is altogether a much smaller plant and need very little to grow lots, whereas, the sword will be a very large plant and will take a lot of nutrients to grow to its fullest. If you want results I suggest to find fluid carbon and tropica plant fertilisers and dose once a week after a water change. I think the browning on the leaves is a sign of cell death, the plant isn't getting enough nutrients and light to sustain itself. The LED lights are not as fabulous as they first thought I am afraid. If you want masses of growth you need to get plants theatre considered weed type, like elodea, grows inches overnight, literally. Good luck

 

[cl3537]

I don't need/want a lot of growth but I'd prefer if the plants were healthy looking though.
Here is another picture closeup of both the amazon sword and the Bacopa.
 
Do I have two different kinds of Algae (the brown/red spots on Bacopa) and the Grey Fluff on the Amazon?
(I haven't added Ammonia in over 48 hours after processing 1.5ppm in less than 18 hours). However I still haven't done any water changes which I am considering doing this afternoon along with a vacuum.
 
 
It has been suggested to me to do a blackout for 3 days and to deal with the algae before adding fish in case one of the forms is green circle algae any thoughts?

 

[Byron]

First, there is no need for blackouts.  These will not work long-term; the temporary blackout will (or usually does) kill some algae [which can then quickly starve the fish of oxygen if not handled properly] but unless the root cause is remedied, it will only re-occur.  I know of no algae harmful to fish in freshwater...what exactly is "green circle algae" anyway?  I googled this term and up came links to a host of different things.
 
On the algae in the photos, the grey fluff is a type of brush algae.  The brownish spots on the Bacopa...can you wipe this off with your fingers?  Will it come off at all even with finger nail scraping, or is it within the leaf?
 
Plants especially those like swords take time to establish when they are moved.  On top of this, plants like the swords are generally grown emersed by nurseries as it is faster and less expensive than submersed.  Swords (Echinodorus sp.) are bog or marsh plants that spend half the year emersed (the "dry" season") and half emersed (the wet or rainy season) in their habitat, but fortunately for us they make excellent aquarium plants that will grow well permanently submersed.  Emersed to submersed cultivation results in the existing outer leaves slowly yellowing and dying as new submersed leaves appear from the centre of the crown, and these may be different in shape; this can also occur through re-establishment, even from one tank to another.  Now that I've seen the latest sword plant photo, I don't see anything of concern.
 
However, you do have a general nutrient issue.  Leaf Zone is not usually adequate as a fertilizer since it only contains iron and potassium, and aquatic plants require 17 nutrients.  All of these will occur naturally in a tank with fish being fed plus water changes, but some may be very limited and insufficient for certain plants (species, and/or numbers).  The "hard" minerals should be sufficient in your case with the GH posted, but trace minerals may be lacking or minimal.  And of course carbon, one of the macro-nutrients, can be minimal until the organics build up in the substrate. LeafZone might work, but it might not. I would suggest a complete liquid supplement such as Seachem's Flourish Comprehensive Supplement, or Brightwell Aquatics' FlorinMulti.  Both are basically the same.  This will be adequate for low and moderate light plants in your situation, which includes the swords.  These products may seem more expensive, but you use very little; about half a teaspoon of Flourish Comp once a week in your tank may be all you need.
 
However, swords are heavy feeders, and they develop large root systems that will spread throughout the substrate in time.  All aquatic plants take up nutrients via roots and leaves, some nutrients are only via leaves.  Fertilizers added to the water are thus sufficient, as the water circulates throughout the substrate.  However, too many nutrients in the open water will mean algae, so here we come to substrate fertilizers.  These do not enter the water column in the same manner; they release nutrients in the substrate where the roots take them up.  In more than 20 years of growing various Echinodorus species, I have found without doubt that they will always grow better with both liquid and substrate fertilizers.  They can manage with just the liquid, but the improvement with the tabs is very noticeable.  Seachem make a good tab called Flourish Tabs; one of these next to a sword plant, replaced every three months, is all you need (plus the liquid).  I would not use the API tabs, as I have read that they can be messy.
 
Some of this has been mentioned by others, but I like to set everything out together so one gets the whole story, so to speak.  Question if anything is unclear.
 
Byron.

 

[cl3537]

First, there is no need for blackouts.  These will not work long-term; the temporary blackout will (or usually does) kill some algae [which can then quickly starve the fish of oxygen if not handled properly] but unless the root cause is remedied, it will only re-occur.  I know of no algae harmful to fish in freshwater...what exactly is "green circle algae" anyway?  I googled this term and up came links to a host of different things.
 
 
>>> He meant green spot algae. But that seems to be a misinterpretation of the photographs.
 
 
On the algae in the photos, the grey fluff is a type of brush algae.  The brownish spots on the Bacopa...can you wipe this off with your fingers?  Will it come off at all even with finger nail scraping, or is it within the leaf?
 
>>> Those spots are just more of the Brush Algae when I blow water onto the Bacopa the spots disappear. See Photo Below. Is this Brush algae also called Black Beard Algae?
 
 
Plants especially those like swords take time to establish when they are moved.  On top of this, plants like the swords are generally grown emersed by nurseries as it is faster and less expensive than submersed.  Swords (Echinodorus sp.) are bog or marsh plants that spend half the year emersed (the "dry" season") and half emersed (the wet or rainy season) in their habitat, but fortunately for us they make excellent aquarium plants that will grow well permanently submersed.  Emersed to submersed cultivation results in the existing outer leaves slowly yellowing and dying as new submersed leaves appear from the centre of the crown, and these may be different in shape; this can also occur through re-establishment, even from one tank to another.  Now that I've seen the latest sword plant photo, I don't see anything of concern.
 
However, you do have a general nutrient issue.  Leaf Zone is not usually adequate as a fertilizer since it only contains iron and potassium, and aquatic plants require 17 nutrients.  All of these will occur naturally in a tank with fish being fed plus water changes, but some may be very limited and insufficient for certain plants (species, and/or numbers).  The "hard" minerals should be sufficient in your case with the GH posted, but trace minerals may be lacking or minimal.  And of course carbon, one of the macro-nutrients, can be minimal until the organics build up in the substrate. LeafZone might work, but it might not. I would suggest a complete liquid supplement such as Seachem's Flourish Comprehensive Supplement, or Brightwell Aquatics' FlorinMulti.  Both are basically the same.  This will be adequate for low and moderate light plants in your situation, which includes the swords.  These products may seem more expensive, but you use very little; about half a teaspoon of Flourish Comp once a week in your tank may be all you need.
 
I can pick up Seachem Fluorish Comprehensive its not too pricey here. The aquascaper here suggested Seachem Fluorish Excel to get rid of the algae should I get that as well? 
 
However, swords are heavy feeders, and they develop large root systems that will spread throughout the substrate in time.  All aquatic plants take up nutrients via roots and leaves, some nutrients are only via leaves.  Fertilizers added to the water are thus sufficient, as the water circulates throughout the substrate.  However, too many nutrients in the open water will mean algae, so here we come to substrate fertilizers.  These do not enter the water column in the same manner; they release nutrients in the substrate where the roots take them up.  In more than 20 years of growing various Echinodorus species, I have found without doubt that they will always grow better with both liquid and substrate fertilizers.  They can manage with just the liquid, but the improvement with the tabs is very noticeable.  Seachem make a good tab called Flourish Tabs; one of these next to a sword plant, replaced every three months, is all you need (plus the liquid).  I would not use the API tabs, as I have read that they can be messy.
 
>> Do I run the risk of developing other forms of Algae if I use Fluorish Comprehensive plus the Fluorish tabs? I don't have many plants and most are not fast growing also I only have moderate light with only the 42 LEDs totalling about 5W.
 
Some of this has been mentioned by others, but I like to set everything out together so one gets the whole story, so to speak.  Question if anything is unclear.
 
>> Thank-you for summarizing it in detail it was helpful.
 
Byron.

 

[cl3537]

I did about a 40% water change and added the little fluval Algae Clear Filter Pouch to my HOB and miraculously within an hour there is hardly a trace of the Grey fluff left.
I used a turkey baster to blow the fluff off the plants, rocks, and substrate into the water so you see the cloudiness in the picture above.

I am amazed it just about disappeared with only small traces barely noticeable in the corner of the tank or hanging off the lowest leaves of the older Bacopa.

 

[Byron]

He meant green spot algae. But that seems to be a misinterpretation of the photographs.
 

 
Green dot algae is best handled by simply cleaning the inside glass at the water changes.  I have seen this on the front glass in one tank, my largest, but I run one of those sponge-type scrapers over the inside glass as the water is draining out even if I don't see anything, and that takes care of it.  It is a good idea to do this in every tank, because the biofilm that will naturally form on all surfaces under water will attract algae and other "stuff" normally so this keeps the glass clean.  A serious infestation elsewhere is due to an imbalance.
 

Those spots are just more of the Brush Algae when I blow water onto the Bacopa the spots disappear. See Photo Below. Is this Brush algae also called Black Beard Algae?
 

 
Yes, brush algae and black beard algae are the same.  There is more than one form, I have had two in my tanks.  But this is not what is on the Bacopa if you can blow it off; brush algae will not blow off anything, it can only be removed by scraping and it is very tough and not easy to even scrape off.  On plant leaves part of the leaf usually comes off with it.  This suggests to me that the brown is diatoms, or some sort of deposit.
 

I can pick up Seachem Fluorish Comprehensive its not too pricey here. The aquascaper here suggested Seachem Fluorish Excel to get rid of the algae should I get that as well?
 

 
I will not use Excel in tanks with fish, so I won't recommend it.  The ingredient (apart from water) is glutaraldehyde, a strong disinfectant that is used in hospitals, anti-freeze, embalming fluid...you get the idea.  Seachem themselves say that while sometimes algae is killed by Excel, they do not recommend this treatment.  But regardless, adding any chemical this dangerous to a tank with living creatures (fish, plants and bacteria will be killed by glutaraldehyde at high levels) is not in my personal view wise.  And let's face it, if it kills the algae like this, what else is it doing?
 

Do I run the risk of developing other forms of Algae if I use Fluorish Comprehensive plus the Fluorish tabs? I don't have many plants and most are not fast growing also I only have moderate light with only the 42 LEDs totalling about 5W.
 

 
Difficult to answer definitively.  The Flourish Tabs will not contribute to algae as they remain in the substrate (according to Seachem) and I know of no case where algae resulted.  The Flourish Comp can cause algae, I have had this occur.  The point though is to ensure the plants have everything they need to out-compete algae, and this is a balance between light (intensity and duration factor in) and nutrients.  I always start off with one dose of Flourish Comp in new tanks, and then go from there according to the plant's response.  Also remember than in any new tank, for about 2-3 months, you are dealing with imbalance biologically and fluctuating water conditions, so here again algae has an advantage.  Which is why various algae is seen in new setups but it disappears and (hopefully) never returns as a nuisance.
 
Watts is not a measurement of light intensity, but only of how much energy a fixture/tube/bulb uses to produce the light.  Be prepared to experiment for a few weeks to find the balance.
 

I did about a 40% water change and added the little fluval Algae Clear Filter Pouch to my HOB and miraculously within an hour there is hardly a trace of the Grey fluff left.
I used a turkey baster to blow the fluff off the plants, rocks, and substrate into the water so you see the cloudiness in the picture above.
I am amazed it just about disappeared with only small traces barely noticeable in the corner of the tank or hanging off the lowest leaves of the older Bacopa.
 

 
I know nothing of this Fluval pouch.  I would want to research into this before I used it.
 
Byron.

 

[cl3537]

 

He meant green spot algae. But that seems to be a misinterpretation of the photographs.
 

 
Green dot algae is best handled by simply cleaning the inside glass at the water changes.  I have seen this on the front glass in one tank, my largest, but I run one of those sponge-type scrapers over the inside glass as the water is draining out even if I don't see anything, and that takes care of it.  It is a good idea to do this in every tank, because the biofilm that will naturally form on all surfaces under water will attract algae and other "stuff" normally so this keeps the glass clean.  A serious infestation elsewhere is due to an imbalance.
 
Those spots are just more of the Brush Algae when I blow water onto the Bacopa the spots disappear. See Photo Below. Is this Brush algae also called Black Beard Algae?
 

 
Yes, brush algae and black beard algae are the same.  There is more than one form, I have had two in my tanks.  But this is not what is on the Bacopa if you can blow it off; brush algae will not blow off anything, it can only be removed by scraping and it is very tough and not easy to even scrape off.  On plant leaves part of the leaf usually comes off with it.  This suggests to me that the brown is diatoms, or some sort of deposit.
 

I can pick up Seachem Fluorish Comprehensive its not too pricey here. The aquascaper here suggested Seachem Fluorish Excel to get rid of the algae should I get that as well?
 

 
I will not use Excel in tanks with fish, so I won't recommend it.  The ingredient (apart from water) is glutaraldehyde, a strong disinfectant that is used in hospitals, anti-freeze, embalming fluid...you get the idea.  Seachem themselves say that while sometimes algae is killed by Excel, they do not recommend this treatment.  But regardless, adding any chemical this dangerous to a tank with living creatures (fish, plants and bacteria will be killed by glutaraldehyde at high levels) is not in my personal view wise.  And let's face it, if it kills the algae like this, what else is it doing?
 

Do I run the risk of developing other forms of Algae if I use Fluorish Comprehensive plus the Fluorish tabs? I don't have many plants and most are not fast growing also I only have moderate light with only the 42 LEDs totalling about 5W.
 

 
Difficult to answer definitively.  The Flourish Tabs will not contribute to algae as they remain in the substrate (according to Seachem) and I know of no case where algae resulted.  The Flourish Comp can cause algae, I have had this occur.  The point though is to ensure the plants have everything they need to out-compete algae, and this is a balance between light (intensity and duration factor in) and nutrients.  I always start off with one dose of Flourish Comp in new tanks, and then go from there according to the plant's response.  Also remember than in any new tank, for about 2-3 months, you are dealing with imbalance biologically and fluctuating water conditions, so here again algae has an advantage.  Which is why various algae is seen in new setups but it disappears and (hopefully) never returns as a nuisance.
 
Watts is not a measurement of light intensity, but only of how much energy a fixture/tube/bulb uses to produce the light.  Be prepared to experiment for a few weeks to find the balance.
 

I did about a 40% water change and added the little fluval Algae Clear Filter Pouch to my HOB and miraculously within an hour there is hardly a trace of the Grey fluff left.
I used a turkey baster to blow the fluff off the plants, rocks, and substrate into the water so you see the cloudiness in the picture above.
I am amazed it just about disappeared with only small traces barely noticeable in the corner of the tank or hanging off the lowest leaves of the older Bacopa.
 

 
I know nothing of this Fluval pouch.  I would want to research into this before I used it.
 
Byron.
 


The fluff or algae whatever it was it does not readily stick to anything it just floats onto things and mostly settles in the bottom.
I am still at a loss as to what I had, as its gone and my water is crystal clear now. Even the Tahitian moon sand is sparkling again.
 
I'll hold off on using Seachem Excel don't have a problem anymore sounds like it introduces more risks which is not really what I want.
 
I have called Hagen and asked what is in their Algae Clear Teabag Pouch they claim it fixes nitrate, phosphate and nitrite and polishes the water. I asked them specifically what is in it and they weren't able to tell me, someone is going to call back. 
 
http/www.amazon.com/Fluval-EDGE-Algae-Cleaner-0-09/dp/B003TLYQU2/ref=sr_1_1?s=pet-supplies&ie=UTF8&qid=1420841986&sr=1-1&keywords=fluval+algae+clear

 

[Byron]

It is sounding as if this was not algae at all, which is certainly another possibility.
 
Hagen is a reliable firm, but that doesn't mean all their products are OK or that certain ones may have issues.  I'll be interested in what they tell you; my skepticism is immediately raised when a manufacturer won't or can't explain how something they make works.
 
Checking online it seems this product somehow "traps" phosphates, nitrite and nitrate.  This sounds warning bells with me, as I do not like any chemical substance that interferes with the nitrification cycle entering my tank [this is why I won't use Prime] and phosphate is a plant nutrient that is usually not all that high and has often been blamed for "algae" when other factors are at play.
 
Clearing the water can be dangerous too.  I'm not suggesting this product uses the same method, but many clarifiers work by sticking microscopic particulate matter together to form larger particles that can then be more easily and readily caught in the filter media.  Problem with these is that they also bind the gills of fish, as I learned by personal sad experience.
 
Keep us posted on their answer, with thanks.
 
Byron.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

I looked into this product also as I was curious. I agree with byron about being disinclined to use it. If you read the SeaChem literature about Prime and nitrite/nitrate removal you will discover this:
 

 
The detoxification of nitrite and nitrate by Prime (when used at elevated levels) is not well understood from a mechanistic standpoint. The most likely explanation is that the nitrite and nitrate is removed in a manner similar to the way ammonia is removed; i.e. it is bound and held in a inert state until such time that bacteria in the biological filter are able to take a hold of it, break it apart and use it. Two other possible scenarios are reduction to nitrogen (N2) gas or conversion into a benign organic nitrogen compound.
I wish we had some more "concrete" explanation, but the end result is the same, it does actually detoxify nitrite and nitrate. This was unexpected chemically and thus initially we were not even aware of this, however we received numerous reports from customers stating that when they overdosed with Prime they were able to reduce or eliminate the high death rates they experienced when their nitrite and nitrate levels were high. We have received enough reports to date to ensure that this is no fluke and is in fact a verifiable function of the product.

from http/www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/Prime.html
 
I am fortunate not to have to use dechlors so I cannont comment on what prime may or may not do, but the key is they don't know how their product works in this respect. I would want to see a real analysis of Prime as if there is chloride in it in some form, this would explain it. Perhaps when mixed with something else common in tanks the result is chloride.
 
I would assume the Fluval product is similar but in a different form.
 
I know ammonia can result in algae and I know no established tank should have either an ammonia or a nitrite remover in it. Long before I would suggest using chemical methods to remove nitrate I would suggest water changes, live plants or a veggie filter or setting things up to encourage the colonization of denitrifying bacteria.
 
I add phosphorus in the form of potassium phosphate as well as nitrogen nitrate and potassium nitrate to several of my planted tanks.
 
I have run carbon during fishless cycles with plants in tanks and everybody was happy. I did this because back when I began fishkless cycling pure ammonia was hard to find so I used one that had surfactants. Between the carbon and doing a few water changes along the way I never had issues when the fish went in. And here is a quote from Tom Varr himself on the topic of carbon in planted tanks in a thread entitled "Myths of Activated Carbon."
 

 
08-28-2011, 02:31 PM   #6
plantbrain
Planted Tank Guru
 
ADA uses it and suggests, it, it must work right?

?

?

?

?

?

?

?? ???

Penac etc questions.........gets much much more press, the basic stuff, water changes, how to scape and prune, carbon in the start etc..........

??

Nope.

Carbon is not a bad idea, removes organic fraction well, this includes many decaying plant products, and as it ages, with high porosity......ends up nice biomedia.

I use it mostly for color, but see no reason NOT to use it in the start up.....or to remove color if you do not want to do another water change etc.
Zeolite is good for initial set ups if you use ADA As and need to add fish that week etc.........

Myths: it's detrimental to planted tanks: removes all the Fe, other ferts..............etc.
__________________
Regards,
Tom Barr

 

[cl3537]

 
I looked into this product also as I was curious. I agree with byron about being disinclined to use it. If you read the SeaChem literature about Prime and nitrite/nitrate removal you will discover this:
 

 
The detoxification of nitrite and nitrate by Prime (when used at elevated levels) is not well understood from a mechanistic standpoint. The most likely explanation is that the nitrite and nitrate is removed in a manner similar to the way ammonia is removed; i.e. it is bound and held in a inert state until such time that bacteria in the biological filter are able to take a hold of it, break it apart and use it. Two other possible scenarios are reduction to nitrogen (N2) gas or conversion into a benign organic nitrogen compound.
I wish we had some more "concrete" explanation, but the end result is the same, it does actually detoxify nitrite and nitrate. This was unexpected chemically and thus initially we were not even aware of this, however we received numerous reports from customers stating that when they overdosed with Prime they were able to reduce or eliminate the high death rates they experienced when their nitrite and nitrate levels were high. We have received enough reports to date to ensure that this is no fluke and is in fact a verifiable function of the product.

from http/www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/Prime.html
 
I am fortunate not to have to use dechlors so I cannont comment on what prime may or may not do, but the key is they don't know how their product works in this respect. I would want to see a real analysis of Prime as if there is chloride in it in some form, this would explain it. Perhaps when mixed with something else common in tanks the result is chloride.
 
I would assume the Fluval product is similar but in a different form.
 
I know ammonia can result in algae and I know no established tank should have either an ammonia or a nitrite remover in it. Long before I would suggest using chemical methods to remove nitrate I would suggest water changes, live plants or a veggie filter or setting things up to encourage the colonization of denitrifying bacteria.
 
I add phosphorus in the form of potassium phosphate as well as nitrogen nitrate and potassium nitrate to several of my planted tanks.
 
I have run carbon during fishless cycles with plants in tanks and everybody was happy. I did this because back when I began fishkless cycling pure ammonia was hard to find so I used one that had surfactants. Between the carbon and doing a few water changes along the way I never had issues when the fish went in. And here is a quote from Tom Varr himself on the topic of carbon in planted tanks in a thread entitled "Myths of Activated Carbon."
 

 
08-28-2011, 02:31 PM   #6
plantbrain
Planted Tank Guru
 
ADA uses it and suggests, it, it must work right?

?

?

?

?

?

?

?? ???

Penac etc questions.........gets much much more press, the basic stuff, water changes, how to scape and prune, carbon in the start etc..........

??

Nope.

Carbon is not a bad idea, removes organic fraction well, this includes many decaying plant products, and as it ages, with high porosity......ends up nice biomedia.

I use it mostly for color, but see no reason NOT to use it in the start up.....or to remove color if you do not want to do another water change etc.
Zeolite is good for initial set ups if you use ADA As and need to add fish that week etc.........

Myths: it's detrimental to planted tanks: removes all the Fe, other ferts..............etc.
__________________
Regards,
Tom Barr

 


What made you link it to Prime?, its not a Dechlorinator, nor a liquid. If I had to guess I would suspect it is more like Purigen. I'll post again once Hagen gets back to me.