Newbie Tank

[FoundMoney]

I'm looking to buy an aquarium setup for my family as a Christmas present. I have read many of the posts in the forum and have found some good information. I think there are a couple of good LFSs in my area and I will talk to the people there to try and get a feel for which are more knowledgable. If I already know more than them about ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, etc. from reading the forums for a couple of days, I'll know I'm in the wrong place. I plan to try fishless cycling. Incidently, I live in Harrison NY, which is in southeastern Westchester County. If anyone knows a good LFS, please let me know.

I would like to keep the cost for all the hardware to $500 or less. Here are my questions:

1)What size tank should I get? I plan to put the tank in an area that can safely accomodate 3 feet long, by 2 feet deep, height is not a limiting factor. I can cheat that space a little bit. Is the 40 gallon tank in the pinned post a good size?

2)What type of fish should I get? I am partial to African chiclids but I have no idea if that is a good species for a beginner. I like fish that are somewhat active and I think the African chiclids have beautiful colors. My two year old daughter was fascinated recently by a tank of African chiclids she saw at the hospital. I am not interested in breeding fish.

3) Related to #'s 1 and 2. How many fish for the tank I plan to get? Is it an inch per gallon? If the fish grow to be four inches that would be ten fish. Is that too many?

4) I'd like to have live plants. Is this difficult for a beginner? What type of plants should I get or should I stick with plastic?

5) What other hardware is recommended? I know I will need filtration, cover, lighting, gravel, aeration, water test kit, food, stand. Anything else? What brands are recommended?

6) Are there any recommended online sites to purchase any of this equipment?

Any help is appreciated! Thanks.

 

[WILDER]

40 gal is a good size of tank, buy the best filter you can for the tank, good luck some other members will answer the other question.

 

[sylvia]

First I'd like to say I'm very happy to see someone who's done their research

Fishless cycling and buying the largest tank you can fit and afford are great ways to start.

As for the fish, it realy depends on how much work you are prepaired to do, your water and the sort of fish you like. Normaly I'd reccomend going with easy fish like danios, livebearers and maybe some cories. However, you seem capable of doing some reasearch so I think you might as well get what you like and go for those african cihlids.
Easy african species to begin with are those that are not too picky about water parameters.

As you may already know, many of the african cichlids often kept in aquariums are from the hard water rift lakes that have a high pH and can require extra work to maintain. They also are rather aggressive and many grow big and are territorial. As such, the number you can keep with such cichlids can no longer be decided according to 'the one inch epr gallon rule' as would be with small and peaceful fish. Most cichlid keepers preffer to over-stock their tanks to spread aggression and over-filter and aerate the tank, as well as providing several extra hiding places like rockwork and caves, to keep the fish healthy and content.
There was a recent post in the african cichlids forum and I think also one question in the neotropical forum concerning this matter.

You'll need to do some extra research if you want to go with rift lake cichlids and find out what your tap water's pH and hardness are like.

If you want a less demanding african cichlid, kribs are ideal. They don't get particularly large either so you could keep more. They don't have the same requirements as the rift lake cichlids as they come from rivers and will do well in pretty much any pH within reason if they came from your area (and as such will be adapted to your water).

Another option is the tiny rift lake shell-dwelling cichlids. These aren't as large or colorful but have very interesting behaviour. In a 40 gallon, however, you may want something that will fill the tank out more. Again, for these you'll need to do some extra research.

Alternatively, you could maybe consider neotropical or south american cichlids. They are just as colorful but many of the dwrf species do well as a community and aren't as aggressive. The colors are spectacular and there are so many to choose from. Do take care with water parameters though as some neotropical/south american species require very soft and acidic water to thrive.

If you want larger or maybe a little more aggressive species, south american jack dempseyes and convicts, as well as green terrors, blue acaras, firemouths and keyholes (these are peaceful) are also options but they aren't all compatible so research them and see what you like and choose accordingly.

Another south american cichlid often ignored is the angel fish. Do consider these as many generations of breeding in varying waters has made them quite adaptable and the more common/wild-type varieties are reasonably hardy. I like them best when combined with moonlight gouramies, scissortail rasboras, some corydoras cats and bristlenose plecos or other SMALL plecos. A few swordtails also look nice.

Other colorful or interesting fish if you don't go with cichlids are gouramies (my favourites - especialy pearls), various catfish including SMALL plecos, various species of rasbora, danio/minnow and tetra, as well as certain barbs and of course the ever-adaptable and colorful water-rabbits (they breed like rabbits but you need not worry about fry) the livebearers.

Plants are a good idea but not if you go with african cichlids. They tend to uproot or destroy plants and most plants don't like the high pH/hardness. If you go for other species, your lighting will determine a lot about the sort of plants you can keep. Here is a site with some excellent easy, low-light suggestions: http/www.aquamaniacs.net/ProvenPerformer...aticPlants.html

For the water test kit get a liquid-based one as these are more accurate than strips and don't 'go bad' as quickly

Your gravel will depend alot on the fish you choose.
Generaly speaking, sark, medium to fine gravel with smooth edges will be ideal. The dark gravel will bring out your fish's colors while the small size will help live plants grow and keep uneaten food from falling into gaps and rotting. At the same time, smooth edges will allow for the keeping of bottom-dwellers such as catfish or other fish that interact with the substrate and can be injured by sharp edges.

If you go for cichlids you will also want lots of larger rocks to use as hiding places.

You must be careful when choosing rocks/substrate in your tank as many will alter your water's chemistry. Anything that buffers your pH and causes alkalinity must be avoided unless being used with the fish in mind. For example, if doing a rift lake set-up, you could use crushed coral as your substrate as the fish would appreaciate the high pH. However, if you go for american cichlids, use inert rock and substrate. Most gravel sold for aquariums is inert but take care when choosing rocks. A good choice would be slate.

You may also want to consider sand as you will inevitably (trust me) find yourself eventualy wanting to try this Research the subject by searching the forum as questions about sand have been asked millions of times before. The essential thing is to make sure it isn't going to alter water chemistry unless desirable (crushed coral example) and that you don't use a thick layer and keep the sand from forming anaerobic pockets of deadly gases by either adding fish that will sift or move the sand or occasionaly stirring it up before a water change.

You also missed the heater you'll need to keep tropicals. One with a thermostat that allows you to directly control the temperature is ideal. Also buy a thermometer and monitor the temp. Check it is stable every time you feed your fish.

Also keep in mind that drift wood and the like can lower pH and increase acidity so watch you don't use it with fish that won't like this.

There is so much to say and so much to learn so welcome to the wonderful world of fish-keeping and I hope I've helped just a little

 

[FoundMoney]

Wow sylvia! Thanks for your detailed response, but of course with anything worthwhile, the more you learn the more questions you have.

OK, so it seems like I'm good with a 40 gal. That's taken care of.

I really am intrigued by aquatic plants and would prefer to have them in the tank so I'm going to rule out the African cichlids. Does that pertain to the kribs, too, or are all African cichlids going to dig up my plants?

From the link you provided, I liked the dwarf hygrophilia, dwarf sagittaria and the java fern. I guess it depends on what's available locally. Is there a reliable internet dealer? Since I don't have any lights already I figured I would go by the 2 watts per gallon rule. Is an 80 watt light expensive, large, reasonable, for a 40 gallon tank?

Do plants help to introduce bacteria? Will they help with cycling or should I cycle the tank before introducing plants, as well as fish? I assume that with all of the plants I mentioned ammonia will not affect them too much as they can grow in acidic to alkaline water.

The plant site also says that the plants I like grow in plain washed gravel. You mention that the gravel type I pick will affect what types of fish I can have. What exactly is plain washed gravel (if it's anything different than what the name suggests). I'm assuming plain washed gravel can come in different sizes and colors.

Let's say I go with South American cichlids instead. Are they just as aggressive with plants? Will they be compatible with the plants? I'm familiar with South American cichlids as I had a friend who kept a tank when we were teenagers and I also had a Jack Dempsy, myself. It was one lone fish in a 20 gallon tank and I didn't really know what I was doing. However, I did manage to keep him alive for about 7 years and he grew quite large.

What about my budget? Am I going to spend all $500 on a 40 gallon tank and related hardware? Can I get away with less? (I need some money for the kids' stocking stuffers! but I don't want to skimp on the tank either.) Thanks for reminding me of the heater. Wilder mentioned to buy the best filter I can. What are my choices? What is the best brand, type?

Thanks again!

 

[sylvia]

I think kribs would be ok with plants Actualy you could keep kribs with some of the south american dwarf cichlids without problems.

The more aggressive south american species aren't good with plants either but if you go for dwarfs and/or keyhole cichlids you could keep most plants with them.

Plain washed gravel is just ordinary gravel

I think the light you suggested would be reasonable for a 40 gallon and should be enough for those plants.

The plants don't introduce bacteria but they do use up ammonia. In a fishless cycle it doesn't realy matter when you add the plants. It's entirely up to you. They will also use up nitrAtes once your tank has finished cycling so they'll help keep maintainance to a minnimum. They are also great cover for fish and will provide oxygen during the day and keep algae at bay. Plus they look very attractive.

For the filter I agree with wilder and going with the best possible. You should be looking for something that will be more than enough for your tank.

Don't get an under gravel filter as they are difficult to maintain and problematic, especialy with plants and fish like cichlids that tend to re-arange the gravel to their liking

Most people will swear by external filters or power filters. External filters give you more space inside the tank and are generaly easiest to maintain. However, I've always used internal power filters because I find they create more disturbance at the surface where water aggitation is very important as it increases the amount of oxygen that can get into the tank for your fish.

With plants some people preffer less surface aggitation but the plants on the site I posted are usualy ok either way.

A bio-wheel is something you may want to look into though realy any filter suitable for your size tank is fine. The more powerful the better.
It basicaly should have room for plenty of filter media for your bacteria to grow and also provide mechanical filtration (which most filters do anyway).

Remember to not change the filter media unless absolutely necessary and, even then, only change part at a time or you'll cause a re-cycle. If the sponges/floss get clogged up, rinse them gently in a bucket of old tank water from a partial water change so you don't kill off the beneficial bacteria.

Chemical filtration (such as activated carbon) isn't realy necessary but useful if you medicate the tank (to remove the medication afterwards). Don't bother using this though unless you need it as it no longer has any effect after about 2 weeks.

Unfortunately I wouldn't know what to suggest as a brand... people seem to have very varied responses and opinions so maybe someone else can give their opinions. I think any filter that fits the above description is ideal.

As for your budget - I realy don't know unfortunately. If you buy online or second hand you can often find things cheaper but I couldn't say which site to look on or who to ask as I don't live in your part of the world any more. I would think, however, that you should be able to get decent equipment for a reasonable price. The most important things, and the things you'll spend most money on, are the tank, filtration and heater. The rest are generaly quite cheap as you can often find suitable decor and the like for low prices or on offer. Fish and plants shouldn't cost you too much either as most LFSs have them pretty inexpensive and you hopefuly wont be buying replacements any time soon.

 

[BobK]

Sylvia, all I can say is WOW!!! I wish I knew about this site when I began several years ago. Really great advice.

The only thing I can think of to add is regarding external power filters. I've never used an internal so I'm not saying that they're either good or bad or that external filters are better.

If you decide you want to try a hang on back external power filter there are definitly a lot of good choices out there. I've found this to be an area where there are many strong opinions.

I personally prefer the bio-wheel types and I have an Emperor 400 and a Penguin 125 and I am very happy with them. The Emperor's have optional baskets so you can add different media types. They do tend to make some noise but I kind of like it. If you want quiet these probably aren't the best but they really have excellent bio-filtration capability.

Next are the AquaClears. I've never used on but I've read reviews on them and read lots of posts on this and other forums and these sound like excellent choices as well. Most people think they are very quiet. They do have lots of room to add different media types in the filter chamber.

Next are the Whisper filters. I've read a lot of mixed opinions on these. A lot of people don't like them but I'm not sure why. I've had one going for four years and it hardly makes any noise at all. I replaced it with the Penguin only because I wanted something with a higher capacity. I'm going to be setting up another fry grow out tank and I'll use it there. IThey don't give you extra room to add your own media though but this is something, IMO, that a lot of people go way overboard with. I think they're good dependable filters and as long as you don't overstock your tank, perform routine maintenance and partial water changes and have a model with the proper capacity for your tank then you can't go wrong with one of these.

I can't help you with a LFS in your area but as far as equipment goes you really can't beat the prices at Big Al's on line and you can usually find good deals on E-bay. I got my Penquin 125 for $20 and change including delivery from e-Bay brand spanking new and it arrived the very next day. I'm actually going to order from Big Al's next time I need some stuff. For $500 you should be able to get a really great 40 gallon set-up.

 

[damia713]

wow I think some one should post this. i really think it has alot of value to the newbies plus it is still short and concise.

 

[FoundMoney]

Thanks for all the information, both in this thread and in other threads on the forums. After doing some more research, I think I am going to have a tank that is centered around a pair of smaller New World cichlids. As such, I would like to keep all of the fish and plants native to South America, if possible.

This was what I was thinking for fish:

2 Rams, Keyholes, or other small cichlid
6 Tetras that are fairly hardy, such as Bloodfins
6 Peppered Cory catfish, or similar Cory
3 Oto catfish

Is that too many or too few fish for a 40 gallon tank? I might be able to go a little bigger on the tank size but not much. If I were to get more fish it would be another pair of dwarf cichilds.

That being said, it will also depend on what is available at my LFS. Some have suggested that you can get one male and two females if you're trying to get a mated pair, and then return the unmated fish. In general, do most LFS allow this?

I'm kind of stuck on the type of plants to get. I'd like to keep plants that are native to South America. The information I've seen doesn't necessarily list the plants by place of origin. Is that information available concisely somewhere?

Thanks again for your help.

 

[FrAnK3333]

emperor is a very nice filter, one of the best IMO. I second fisharefun. But my emperor isnt that loud i find it quit, the only thing u can hear is the water falling back into the tank. actually what u have in mind for fish you could fit more.

 

[gwlee7]

I have peppered cories so obviously I'll think that is a great choice.

I am relatively new to fishkeeping too and if I can say one thing it is this:

Think very carefully about what you want and be patient.

If you have to special order a fish to get the one(s) you want; do so.

Make sure you are certain that you want x type of substrtate before you get the tank full of water and or fish.

Planning ahead will save you lots of headaches.

This is a grat forum. Everyone wants you to be successful.

 

[FoundMoney]

Think very carefully about what you want and be patient.

gwlee7: very good advice that doesn't only apply to fishkeeping.

One of the great things about a site like this is that you can throw out ideas to help plan.

Good point about substrate. I'm thinking a fairly small, dark, naturally colored gravel will be fine. What do you think?

If the LFS doesn't have the fish I want, I can either wait until they get it in or look for another source. I don't plan on buying fish just to have fish in the tank.

 

[FrAnK3333]

i like sand. im switching my tank from gravel to sand. But you should go with what you want.

 

[FoundMoney]

It's not that I prefer one over the other. I just want to use what is best for my planned tank. I really have no preference.

 

[modernhamlet]

It's not that I prefer one over the other. I just want to use what is best for my planned tank. I really have no preference.

First off, great proposed stocking plan! They should do wonderfully together. I'd say you even have room for a few more tetras, to maybe 10 total. Some might note the rams could be a little aggressive to your cories or otos. If you can get them young, this may be less of a problem.

Regarding subtrate, since you're interested in a school of corys, I'd suggest sand, as they generally prefer it over gravel. If you want gravel, just make sure it's relatively small and (more importantly) smooth.

Good luck with your tank!

(edit: couple of details)

 

[FrAnK3333]

plus plants grow better in sand