New to tropical fish - seeking some advice

[Byron]

Water conditioners should always be used at the recommended dose. If you don't use enough it won't remove all the chlorine, and chlorine in the water is not good for fish.
But they shouldn't be over dosed either.


Like Byron, I use API Tap Water Conditioner. It may look expensive but it uses 1 drop per US gallon/3.8 litres water so a bottle lasts a long time.

Agree. And go ahead and use the Fluval but when it is nearly gone, consider a better product (like the API).

 

[seangee]

Gotcha. I didn't use any dechlorinator so far so hopefully the Fluval Quick Clear aquarium Water Clarifier tomorrow helps.

You should use dechlorinator even before the fish arrive. Chlorine does have a detrimental effect of beneficial bacteria. The so called clarifier won't actually help with the cloudiness. These cause solid organic waste to clump together so that they sink or go into the filter. They won't affect bacteria so there is no point in using them.

 

[jonnyc88]

I want to ensure you understand this, so this is not merely arguing over using the "clarifier," but my intention is to explain the detriment of these so you and others understand the risk you are taking (again, this is with fish in the tank; before, fine but make sure substantial water changes get all of this chemical out before any fish go in). Fish will be severely stressed as it is, they do not need something like this clogging up their works.

And these products are not "safe" if by safe one means will cause no harm whatsoever to fish. I have used API's clarifier (forgotten what its called now, doesn't matter) and I have used Seachem's product. Both are supposedly "safe" for fish. When I see the fish suddenly swim to the opposite end of the tank when I added this product at one end, and remain there near the surface even gasping slightly, I know it is not "safe for fish." Just because fish do not die does not mean they are not being detrimentally harmed, and this may be temporary or permanent depending upon the substance and the fish.

Yes, I totally understand where you are coming from. I'm not very in favour of adding chemicals in my tank either, however at present my concern is over the cloudiness of the water.
I won't be adding any of these chemicals with fish in. My plan is to first try out the water clarifier by Fluval to hopefully address the cloudiness issue.
I would completely change the water after the treatment and before the fish goes in, however won't take counteract any beneficial effect of the treatment? i.e. will make the water cloudy again?
My understanding is that the water clarifier (or one that tackles the cloudiness in the water) works by trying to bind any floating micro particles to they are large enough to be sucked by the external filter. Assuming that I use the correct dose and wait until the treatment period is over isn't the water safe enough for the fish?
Sorry if I'm being annoying, I'm genuinely trying to figure out the best course of action here.

Nothing is as beneficial as water changes, and the more the better. But most accept once weekly at 50-70% will remove that amount of "pollution," and there is no other way to remove this crud. Filters do not, plants cannot. Only a substantial water change. I just finished my water changes a few minutes ago, and all three tanks were drained down to about 3-4 inches from the sand. I probably easily changed 80%. I've been doing this for over 25 years now, and my wild caught fish spawn regularly, and more importantly, generally live to or past the average expected lifespan. Providing the right environment (water parameters, aquascape, sufficient numbers of shoaling species, and compatible species) is essential for success. There is no other certainty of healthy fish.

Water stability depends upon significant water changes, along with having a balanced biological system to begin with (meaning the fish species and numbers, not excess feeding, live plants factor in too).

Understood. We'd considering weekly water changes as advised

 

[jonnyc88]

You should use dechlorinator even before the fish arrive. Chlorine does have a detrimental effect of beneficial bacteria. The so called clarifier won't actually help with the cloudiness. These cause solid organic waste to clump together so that they sink or go into the filter. They won't affect bacteria so there is no point in using them.

Yes, the clarifier is the first step to try and reduce the cloudiness.

The Fluval Water conditioner was initially planned as Step 2 before adding fish to make the tap water safe, but to be honest I'm not too sure now... should I go with API Tap Water Conditioner instead?

 

[jonnyc88]

Water conditioners should always be used at the recommended dose. If you don't use enough it won't remove all the chlorine, and chlorine in the water is not good for fish.
But they shouldn't be over dosed either.


Like Byron, I use API Tap Water Conditioner. It may look expensive but it uses 1 drop per US gallon/3.8 litres water so a bottle lasts a long time.

It's only about £5 more expensive compared to the Fluval conditioner I've bought
I'll keep that in mind for when my Fluval Conditioner runs out.

 

[jonnyc88]

Agree. And go ahead and use the Fluval but when it is nearly gone, consider a better product (like the API).

Cheers @Byron.

I've actually found some information on the Fluval Conditioner and I believe the herbal extract is Valerian Root.

To neutralise chlorine, chloramine and other harmful elements such as metals, Fluval Aqua Plus is a great addition to your aquarium kit.

Tap water contains chlorine which is toxic to fish and can increase the risk of disease. Aqua Plus contains P.H.E a compound which includes natural Valerian Root, which is proven to reduce stress levels as well healing properties.

Treat all tap water when performing a water change, to avoid chlorine poisoning and protect the delicate skin and membranes of your fish.

Ideal for setting up a new tank, water changes and transporting fish.

Fluval AquaPlus Tap Water Conditioner

To neutralise chlorine, chloramine and other harmful elements such as metals, Fluval Aqua Plus is a great addition to your aquarium kit.Tap water contains chlorine which is toxic to fish and...

www.swelluk.com

.

 

[Byron]

Cheers @Byron.

I've actually found some information on the Fluval Conditioner and I believe the herbal extract is Valerian Root.

To neutralise chlorine, chloramine and other harmful elements such as metals, Fluval Aqua Plus is a great addition to your aquarium kit.

Tap water contains chlorine which is toxic to fish and can increase the risk of disease. Aqua Plus contains P.H.E a compound which includes natural Valerian Root, which is proven to reduce stress levels as well healing properties.

Treat all tap water when performing a water change, to avoid chlorine poisoning and protect the delicate skin and membranes of your fish.

Ideal for setting up a new tank, water changes and transporting fish.

Fluval AquaPlus Tap Water Conditioner

To neutralise chlorine, chloramine and other harmful elements such as metals, Fluval Aqua Plus is a great addition to your aquarium kit.Tap water contains chlorine which is toxic to fish and...

www.swelluk.com

.

This was the additive i couldn't think of earlier, valerian. Valerian has side effects for humans including drowsiness (why put your fish to sleep???), rapid heartbeat (this is certainly dangerous), dizziness, blurred eyesight. Now, how on earth would this benefit fish? The mind boggles.

I had a conditioner some years ago (can't remember which) that had this in it, though it was not on the label (I do read labels) and another member pointed it out and I got rid of it pronto.

 

[Essjay]

The so called clarifier won't actually help with the cloudiness. These cause solid organic waste to clump together so that they sink or go into the filter. They won't affect bacteria so there is no point in using them.

I agree with seangee. The clarifier will have no effect on a bacterial bloom. These products do not clump bacteria so there is no point using it.

 

[jonnyc88]

I agree with seangee. The clarifier will have no effect on a bacterial bloom. These products do not clump bacteria so there is no point using it.

Ok, I will go with the experts and won't add anything to try clearing the cloudiness.
I will just wait a few days

 

[Byron]

A more general post that may help in understanding the seriousness of additives.

The aquatic environment is the most complex one on this planet, and the creatures that inhabit the aquatic environment are more specialized than terrestrial animals to their "air" environment. Water is a precious and very unique substance; it is the most powerful solvent on the planet, assimilating any substance it comes into contact with that can be taken up in dissolved form, such as organics, minerals (making the water hard or soft), ions, toxins, oxygen and other gasses, etc. Air does not do this to such an extent; you cannot dissolve minerals into the air for example. How many times do members ask about aerosols used near an aquarium when a member says the fish are gasping? A dog is not going to be anywhere near as harmed by an aerosol in the vast expanse of air as will fish when this gets in the water.

The fish that live in this complex and involved environment have highly developed physiological processes for dealing with this aquatic world. The water continually enters the fish via osmosis through every cell, and much of the substances dissolved in the water thus get inside the fish, into the bloodstream and internal organs, and the gills. This is one very huge aspect. But another involves the water chemistry.

A marine biologist/microbiologist several years ago explained to me the significant risk of adding any substance to the tank water. The chemistry of the water follows set natural laws or rules. Every time we add a substance, we impact that order, sometimes significantly, sometimes less. But it is not always easy to determine beforehand the effect this might have, depending upon the substance. This is why it is so dangerous to attempt to adjust the pH without understanding and dealing with the GH, KH, CO2, etc. And for fish this can be lethal, when one remembers the water is getting inside them 24/7 and they are having to adjust their own biological processes accordingly. As one simple example, the fish must regulate the pH of its blood to equal that of the water entering it, and this take energy. The more substances in the water, the harder the fish must work just to keep on an even keel with its essential life processes. The kidneys for example filter out substances such as calcium salts in hard water, causing kidney tube blockages in soft water fish that will slowly kill them--with no external sign until death.

The best habit for an aquarist to develop is one of never using additives unless they are absolutely essential to the welfare of the fish. Plant additives need to be sparingly used, as they can impact some fish too.

 

[jonnyc88]

Thanks for taking the time to post that @Byron. It was very informative read.
As someone said to me, "it's not keeping fish, we're merely keeping water here".

 

[jonnyc88]

Happy to report after a 80% water change yesterday the tank is starting to look less cloudy
No additives used so far.
Daughter wants to add few more plants so that's the next step for us. We will monitor the water levels and ensure everything is good before the fish arrives.
Thinking of adding a flat rock feature on the front right side of the aquarium as you are looking at it for the shrimps but not too sure if it will overcrowd the aquarium.

 

[mbsqw1d]

Great looking setup. Is that a dried almond leaf in there? Corys will love all that (if youre still getting corys?) If your water is a bit hard maybe introduce some bogwood too? Bogwood also great for tying plants to such as java fern, anubias and java moss.
If you are after creating a carpet, try to leave a good amount of sand for the corys to dig around in.
If your substrate is quite fine, the plants may struggle to find nutrients as the detritus doesnt fall through like it does with gravel. I've tried to combat this in mine with root-tabs and also ive added some Malaysian trumpet snails which spend most of the time under the sand, helping to move it around.

 

[jonnyc88]

Great looking setup. Is that a dried almond leaf in there? Corys will love all that (if youre still getting corys?) If your water is a bit hard maybe introduce some bogwood too? Bogwood also great for tying plants to such as java fern, anubias and java moss.
If you are after creating a carpet, try to leave a good amount of sand for the corys to dig around in.
If your substrate is quite fine, the plants may struggle to find nutrients as the detritus doesnt fall through like it does with gravel. I've tried to combat this in mine with root-tabs and also ive added some Malaysian trumpet snails which spend most of the time under the sand, helping to move it around.

The dried leaf is from my daughter. She keeps stash in zip lock bag and added one to the tank as she said the tannins helps

I did think of driftwood however I think the tank is getting a bit crowded as the movement. We’ve recently added some carpet grass to the tank.

The substrate is Limpopo Black sand. It’s pretty good, a bit on the fine side so we added some root tabs. There are at least 3 inches of substrate in the tank so hopefully the roots will take hold.

 

[mbsqw1d]

Yeh looks like a dried almond leaf, your daughter os very wise! Looking forward to seeing it stocked theres going to be some very happy fish living in there!