New To Betta Fish

A water change can be done as much as leaves the fish enough water to swim upright in to remove ammonia and nitrite levels.

Water can't be left to stand for a day as done in the 'old' world because water has chemicals added to it. Water should be conditioned with a tap safe then added to the tank. To prevent temp changes you use some warm water as well provided your pipes are not made of copper thereby using boiled water from the kettle mixed with cold should be sufficient.

What a nasty attitude you have because you've been told you're wrong.

With a vase, the water would need minimum of 50% water change to remove the ammonia created by the fish. 25% would not be enough.

Boy are you wrong about a lot of things. You attack my advice with the word HOGWASH and then call me nasty. I can take being told I'm wrong but I wasn't wrong as I easily prooved above. Then you try to insult me with the the words no offense to cover yourself. Come on man, I wasn't born yesterday though at my age I'm beginning to wish I was. LOL! I've been taking care of fish for over 40 years straight so I think I know what I'm talking about and there is no old world new world when it comes to water chemistry.

Now for some more facts:
If you have a 10 gallon tank and take 8 gallons out leaving enough room for the betta to swim (as you say) and this water is at 7.0 pH. you are doing an 80% water change. Then you put in fresh tap water at say 7.6 pH generaly speaking. You will end up with your fish seeing an instant ph change of .48 ph. It is never a good idea to let them see more than a .3 pH change in a 24 hour period so what do you think a instant .48 ph change will do to the fish? It's not good.
Here's the math:
7.6 - 7.0 = .6 pH change for a 100% water change
.6 * .8 (80% water change) = .48 ph increase instantly

You said I was speaking hogwash when I said to let the water stand and be sure to treat it to remove the chlorines. Now you say to use some warm water provided your pipes are not made of copper to match the teperature and also that letting water stand is old world because now chemicals are added. Sorry but this is bad advice also.

First, leting it stand helps to evaporate many of the chemicals that are added and treating it DOES remove the Chlorine that is most certainly added to tap water. NEVER USE WARM WATER because the coils in the water heater are almost always made of copper but also because old water heaters will have all kinds of sediments collected at the bottom of the tank. This is covered in just about every basic fish care book yet you claimed I should go back to to Basic training and then YOU call me nasty.

You say with the Vase 50% minimum is needed and 25% may not be enough. That may be true but we don't know the habbits of the humans caring for the fish so we have to speak in general terms. Lets say he doesn't get around to the water change for two weeks and his fish is in this little vase probably less than a gallon but suppose it it one gallon. In two weeks the Betta will be swimming in his own urine, very acididy, something around 6.6 pH. Lets say his tap water is at 7.6. like mine is and most of the water in my area. Maybe it's not but, remember we must speak in general terms when we don't know all the conditions. So if he does a 50% water change his fish will see an instant pH change of .5pH. Not healthy for the fish. If he does a 25% water change he only sees a instant .25pH change. Still too high by my standards but much better than a .5 pH change.

The Vase has a plant it in that will help eat the ammonia and slow down the build up of ammonia so ammonia is not the urgent problem but yes you are right that the ammonia is why we want to do the water change at this point. But why risk killing the fish with an instant .5 pH change when he can just do daily 25% water changes and not stress the fish and still keep the ammonia from any harmful levels.

Once the beneficial bacteria is established in the tank, ammonia is never the problem unless you over stock the tank. The reason we continue to do the water changes after the beneficial bacteria is established is to keep a constant pH by removing the pissy water and the uneaten foods and poopoos. The pH will drop as more waste is added to a tank. The best way to measure how you are doing with water changes ie: how frequent and how much per change, is by monitoring your pH levels. If they start dropping then you need to increase the amount or the frequency of the changes you are making. It's also a good way to insure you don't do too much of a water change in one change.

When I worked in a fish store I heard this story so many times it made me sick:
I got so tired of seeing my dirty gravel that I cleaned out the whole tank washed the gravel, put in new water and put the fish back in and within a few days the water got cloudy and all the fish were dead.

We all know this story and what 2 things killed the fish. Obviously if their gravel was that dirty they weren't doing proper maintenance so the pH was very likely down around 6 or lower. The new tap water even treated probably had a much higher pH and thus the fish saw an instant pH change much greater than they can handle.

The second problem was they removed all the beneficial bacteria with the total tank cleaning. So the water got cloudy from the ammonia not being eaten up by any beneficial bacteria. The fish were stressed from ammonia and saw a major pH change. They didn't have a chance.

I've seen this so many times so yes, I do try to give advise ALL the time maybe more than it is welcome. But when I do give advice I give it in general terms with worst case senerios unless I know more details because it's better to be safe than sorry. Also, I do try to teach water chemistry because people that want to take the time to understand it will have a much easier time understanding what is going on with their aquariums and with have much happier fish.

I'm not trying to fight with you or anyone and I do believe most of what I say is known by most of the readers here because MOST of it is BASIC fish care but we do see posts here that say first time Betta or first fish tank so we do get newbies and if I don't mind typing out all this advice I don't see why it would bother anyone because it is not wrong. They can always ignore my posts. Some of my advice may be on the cautious side but that will be good for those that aren't as keen as we are as far as maintaining their tanks. If I can save just one Betta from dying from a human that just didn't know better than it's all worth it to me.
 
I'm Sorry Whisper but i disagree with you.

In any small unfiltered tank atleast 50% water changes should be done daily. As for pH its the same water thats came out of the tap in the 1st place so it shouldn't be any different.

The matter on leaving water to 'stand' your both right in a way, yes it removes the Chlorine but you still need to use some form of conditioner to remove the other harmful elements added to make it safe for us.

At the end of the day its all down to the size of the Vase in question
 
I'm Sorry Whisper but i disagree with you.

In any small unfiltered tank atleast 50% water changes should be done daily. As for pH its the same water thats came out of the tap in the 1st place so it shouldn't be any different.

The matter on leaving water to 'stand' your both right in a way, yes it removes the Chlorine but you still need to use some form of conditioner to remove the other harmful elements added to make it safe for us.

At the end of the day its all down to the size of the Vase in question

50% is Ok if you are doing them daily because you won't see a big pH drop in one day, but that does depend on the size of the tank with larger drops expected with smaller tanks. I'm just trying to make people understand that the larger the water change the more potential for a bigger pH and a temperature mismatch there is going to be. These fish are extremely sensitive to instant pH and temperature changes and can only tolorate small changes at a time.

So many people that used to come into Petland to buy fish were clueless to the whole concept of pH so this is a critical area to discuss. When I'd sell some fish I'd ask the buyer if they want to know what the pH level is of the water we keep our fish in here and many would ask, "Why do I want to know that?" They don't know that if the pet store keeps the fish in 7.0 water and they go home and put the fish in a new tank with 7.6 tap water they are going to lose most of their fish. Heck, most of them never even heard of pH.

Bettas can live in a wide range of pH levels but like most fish they cannot tolorate instant pH changes greater than .3 without getting stressed and sometimes stressed to death.

This guy identified himself as being a newbie and I have to say that I was very suprised that in all the good advice he got from this board, nobody discussed pH.
 
I'm Sorry Whisper but i disagree with you.

In any small unfiltered tank atleast 50% water changes should be done daily. As for pH its the same water thats came out of the tap in the 1st place so it shouldn't be any different.

The matter on leaving water to 'stand' your both right in a way, yes it removes the Chlorine but you still need to use some form of conditioner to remove the other harmful elements added to make it safe for us.

At the end of the day its all down to the size of the Vase in question

50% is Ok if you are doing them daily because you won't see a big pH drop in one day, but that does depend on the size of the tank with larger drops expected with smaller tanks. I'm just trying to make people understand that the larger the water change the more potential for a bigger pH and a temperature mismatch there is going to be. These fish are extremely sensitive to instant pH and temperature changes and can only tolorate small changes at a time.

So many people that used to come into Petland to buy fish were clueless to the whole concept of pH so this is a critical area to discuss. When I'd sell some fish I'd ask the buyer if they want to know what the pH level is of the water we keep our fish in here and many would ask, "Why do I want to know that?" They don't know that if the pet store keeps the fish in 7.0 water and they go home and put the fish in a new tank with 7.6 tap water they are going to lose most of their fish. Heck, most of them never even heard of pH.

Bettas can live in a wide range of pH levels but like most fish they cannot tolorate instant pH changes greater than .3 without getting stressed and sometimes stressed to death.

This guy identified himself as being a newbie and I have to say that I was very suprised that in all the good advice he got from this board, nobody discussed pH.

In all fairness though, I understand that pH is a big deal and that the tap water should be tested to be sure that it close to what is actually in the tank. But at the same time, said newbies probably should not mess with the pH to much to try and correct because that can also have devastating effects. I killed almost a whole tank of fish trying to play chemist and correct a pH that had dropped. A water change is the best way to correct a pH if done slowly, but as others have stated, an unfiltered Betta tank should be changed 50% daily and the pH will not change that much in a day.
 
Whisper i think you've missed my point about the pH

the OP would have filled there tank with the same water there replacing with right? so the pH will be the same unless they have messed with it themselves. Yes bogwood can change it but not enough to cause any harm. pH is easily adapted too these days
 
While hes in the vase, make sure you are changing the water at least every other day (every day would be ideal) and make sure it is in a warm place if there is no heater. Try to keep the temp around no less than 72 degrees. These are tropical fish and need to be kept warm. A small desklamp with incandescent bulb at an appropriate distance should do the trick..If you dont have one keep it in the kitchen..the warmest room in the house (on top of the fridge is ideal as it is usually toasty up there.).
also, dont overfeed him. only a few pellets or flakes every OTHER day. cooler water=slower metabolism and need less food. also will help with the water quality. If you are able to, try to put a few plants in. Camboba and elodea/anacharis can grow JUST fine floating freely in the water (dont need to be rooted) and will provide some cover for him as well as help somewhat with ammonia.
hope that helps you a bit more than people just "shouting" about getting a larger tank. If you do upgrade for him (idealy you should, but given info above should be ok in the meantime), try to look for at least a 3 gal. Bigger is always better (and easier to maintain if you are new to the hobby) but 3 gal would be great for a single male (or female) betta.
cheers
Alright awesome, thanks for being nice and understanding that im new to bettas, but im not new to fish keeping. ill probably get a 5-10 gallon soon

And when you do water changes NEVER change more than 50% of the water at a time. It is best to do freaquent SMALL water changes no more than 25%. This way you lower the risk of killing your fish from a large pH change or a mismatched temperature change. Let the new water stand for a day so it becomes the same temperature as the water your fish is currently in and treat it to remove the Chlorine. TOTAL AND UTTER RUBBISH THIS PARAGRAPH - IGNORE IT

I cannot express how important this is. It is the main reason why new fish owners kill their fish unintentionally. Do small water changes and it's a good idea to get a pH measuring kit so you know what the pH is and if it is dropping too fast.

If the pH drops within a few days, it means you need to do more freaquent water changes. PH is the least of his worries!! It is unlikely to drop anyway!

The advice you were given above about putting him in a tank of 3 to 5 gallons minimum is excellent. And in that small of a tank, I would not look to add any other fish or you'll need to do daily 25% water changes.

Take our advice and your Betta will love you and will even interact with you if you spend some quality time with him every day. A betta can bond with a human much like a dog does. Treat him like royalty because..... HE IS! :)

Think you need to go to the beginners centre and relearn fishing keeping basics. No offence.
haha i have been keeping fish for as long as i remember and i know that keeping a betta in a vase may not be best but i know people who have kept them in there for 5 years. i think you should go learn how to treat other people

well acually neons go in schools of 3-4 and also bettas dont care what size at all they live in. i feed them frozen brine shrimp and some pellats

if you are going to take that attitude, you shouldnt be keeping fish. A betta will be VERY grumpy if you stuck him in a 500ml mug for all his life but would love you forever if you stuck him in a tank with big surface area and low water current so it wont buffet it around. 3gal is pushing it IMO. 5gal+ only for me :)

i'll be keeping my male in a 10.5 gal, with some tetras (6) and dwarf cfories when they come back in stock (4)
bettas are found in horse shoe puddles in the wild i have heard though
 
While hes in the vase, make sure you are changing the water at least every other day (every day would be ideal) and make sure it is in a warm place if there is no heater. Try to keep the temp around no less than 72 degrees. These are tropical fish and need to be kept warm. A small desklamp with incandescent bulb at an appropriate distance should do the trick..If you dont have one keep it in the kitchen..the warmest room in the house (on top of the fridge is ideal as it is usually toasty up there.).
also, dont overfeed him. only a few pellets or flakes every OTHER day. cooler water=slower metabolism and need less food. also will help with the water quality. If you are able to, try to put a few plants in. Camboba and elodea/anacharis can grow JUST fine floating freely in the water (dont need to be rooted) and will provide some cover for him as well as help somewhat with ammonia.
hope that helps you a bit more than people just "shouting" about getting a larger tank. If you do upgrade for him (idealy you should, but given info above should be ok in the meantime), try to look for at least a 3 gal. Bigger is always better (and easier to maintain if you are new to the hobby) but 3 gal would be great for a single male (or female) betta.
cheers
Alright awesome, thanks for being nice and understanding that im new to bettas, but im not new to fish keeping. ill probably get a 5-10 gallon soon

And when you do water changes NEVER change more than 50% of the water at a time. It is best to do freaquent SMALL water changes no more than 25%. This way you lower the risk of killing your fish from a large pH change or a mismatched temperature change. Let the new water stand for a day so it becomes the same temperature as the water your fish is currently in and treat it to remove the Chlorine. TOTAL AND UTTER RUBBISH THIS PARAGRAPH - IGNORE IT

I cannot express how important this is. It is the main reason why new fish owners kill their fish unintentionally. Do small water changes and it's a good idea to get a pH measuring kit so you know what the pH is and if it is dropping too fast.

If the pH drops within a few days, it means you need to do more freaquent water changes. PH is the least of his worries!! It is unlikely to drop anyway!

The advice you were given above about putting him in a tank of 3 to 5 gallons minimum is excellent. And in that small of a tank, I would not look to add any other fish or you'll need to do daily 25% water changes.

Take our advice and your Betta will love you and will even interact with you if you spend some quality time with him every day. A betta can bond with a human much like a dog does. Treat him like royalty because..... HE IS! :)

Think you need to go to the beginners centre and relearn fishing keeping basics. No offence.
haha i have been keeping fish for as long as i remember and i know that keeping a betta in a vase may not be best but i know people who have kept them in there for 5 years. i think you should go learn how to treat other people

well acually neons go in schools of 3-4 and also bettas dont care what size at all they live in. i feed them frozen brine shrimp and some pellats

if you are going to take that attitude, you shouldnt be keeping fish. A betta will be VERY grumpy if you stuck him in a 500ml mug for all his life but would love you forever if you stuck him in a tank with big surface area and low water current so it wont buffet it around. 3gal is pushing it IMO. 5gal+ only for me :)

i'll be keeping my male in a 10.5 gal, with some tetras (6) and dwarf cfories when they come back in stock (4)
bettas are found in horse shoe puddles in the wild i have heard though

I have a betta that lives happily in a 3L tank. I have put him in larger tanks and he freaked. his fins clamped down, he wouldn't eat and he wouldn't flare. After day three I moved him back to his 3L tank and he flares, he swims, he eats. It really depends on the personality of the betta. I have another betta who is flourishing in a 10gallon with a school of harlequins and some albino cories.
 
As for concern about pH, and im certainly not trying to kick the beehive folks just offering some real world experience...
I regularly do very large waterchanges on my tanks. as most of you know i have small tanks for bettas (which i KNOW some folks disagree with but that is not my point here). sometime i change up to 80% in one go. I have NEVER EVER seen any ill effects to my fish ever after a waterchange. pH as mentioned is about the least affective bit of water chemistry unless you are dealing with very sensitive species.
I also used to have planted tanks with co2. my pH would swing by a full degree every night at while the lights were out. Fish were never ever affected in this situation either.
just saying. Not trying to disagree with anyones viewpoint, just giving some experience to the thread (which is/was getting quite nasty folks to be honest).
cheers
 
As for concern about pH, and im certainly not trying to kick the beehive folks just offering some real world experience...
I regularly do very large waterchanges on my tanks. as most of you know i have small tanks for bettas (which i KNOW some folks disagree with but that is not my point here). sometime i change up to 80% in one go. I have NEVER EVER seen any ill effects to my fish ever after a waterchange. pH as mentioned is about the least affective bit of water chemistry unless you are dealing with very sensitive species.
I also used to have planted tanks with co2. my pH would swing by a full degree every night at while the lights were out. Fish were never ever affected in this situation either.
just saying. Not trying to disagree with anyones viewpoint, just giving some experience to the thread (which is/was getting quite nasty folks to be honest).
cheers
+1

I used water changes only as a method to adjust pH and only when it is leaning towards acidic. The pH in my tap water is 8.6, and the water in my tank is about 7.4. The pH spikes with every weekend water change, and I have very healthy fish. It was only when I became to concerned about the pH and tried to chemically stabilize it that I actually lost fish.
 

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