New To Aquariums

[BriansAquarium]

Just wanted to drop in and say high. Just started a 20g fish tank on Sat 8/11/2013. Going to be using this forum as a tool for help, and when I get experience, to hopefully help others!

 

[meandmykribs]

  You certainly came to the right place

 

[Megalodon]

what are you stocking it with? im nosey and love to see what other people keep in their tanks.

 

[ky*weremiej]

 

[BriansAquarium]

So far doing a fish in cycle using TSS. I currently have 10 glowlight tetras and 3 ghost shrimp. I want to add about 4-6 Juliis in a month or so once the tank is cycled (expensive fish don't want to risk it). Everything is going fine as of now, just wish this darned cloudy water would go away. Day 5 and still no ammonia spike though. Hope it doesn't happen when I'm pulling a 12 at work. I will post pics once I get tank cleared up and landscaping finished.

and thanks for the welcome!

 

[ky*weremiej]

If its a sand substrate your using it will take a while to settle with a filter pumping, don't worry about the spiking when you see the ammonia don't just water change straight away or its going to prolong the cycle you need to give the bacteria a chance  but if it gets to 1ppm then your going to  want to do a 50% water change, you need to get some "tetra safe start with live bacteria" its the best I have used for getting tanks going and I have to ask are you using declinator ?

 

[BriansAquarium]

When I change the water yes that was before TSS. Says not to use once you add TSS. And 1ppm total, I've been reading that you don't change water until 3 or 4 ppm total ammonia, and to add live good bacteria as you ammonia goes up to cycle faster and lower ammonia, as changing water makes it take longer. Is this true?

 

[ky*weremiej]

I ment to say dechlorinator, the thing is in your case is you have already got fish in the tank, most people do a fishless cycle that is when you can let the levels of ammonia get high. However in your case you are doing a fish cycle, so its going to take you longer to cycle because you have to do water changes or your fish will get sick you don't want an outbreak of ick or fungal fin rot, I can recommend the best products I use are "tetra safe start" and "tetra aqua safe" you need to use them both safe start adds the live bacteria and aqua safe conditions the water, if you don't use aqua safe or some sort of dechlorinator then the chemicals in your tap water will kill the live bacteria. so what you should be doing is when your ammonia gets to about 1ppm do a 50% water change but you need to treat the water from your tap before it goes into your tank so treat it in the bucket and give it 5 min to settle I know guys that leave it over night to settle, then top up the tank with the treated water and finally then add the safe start into the tank so the live bacteria is going to work. Honestly you don't want fin rot caused by bad water its a disaster and you end up starting cycling back from the start, don't let this put you off once you get cycled its easy going from there

 

[BriansAquarium]

Yeah don't want my fish to get sick, but any time there is ammonia in the water I've just been adding API'S Live bacteria called quick smart, comes with declorinator built in. It was only .25ppm yesterday total ammonia, going to check every day until I start seeing nitrates then every other day until ammonia and nitrite is at zero and all I'm seeing is nitrates (which = fully cycled tank). I've been told to only do water changes if ammonia or nitrite levels get too high, other wise it takes way longer to cycle. Total ammonia is only toxic to fish at 4-5ppm (again correct me if I'm wrong, this is all knowledge I've gained from reading forum and researching other sites). On a side note my tank has been clearing up quite nicely and fish are seem to be eating a little more! Really love this hobby can't wait to change the décor and post some pics when I have the tank looking like I want it.

 

[ky*weremiej]

never used quick start, so hope it works out for you, you are right about the water changes making the cycle take longer but the way you have to look at it is, would you like to live in bad conditions ? that is why some people say its inhumane to do a fish cycle. Hey its all about learning when I first started I overstocked and had pregnant fish, fin rot, ick, so I learnt the hard way. Now I wont to a fish cycle because it is to much hassle and not good for the fish, I have a tank cycling now with nothing in it  and I am just about to fill it this weekend.
 
Glad you enjoying the hobby it wont be long before you have multi tank syndrome and have a house full

 

[BriansAquarium]

Im doing water tests every day, so hopefully it wont be inhumane. No nitrites yet as an update but ammonia is steadily coming up, just keep adding live bacteria as the instructions say. tank is clearer and clearer every day.

 

[the_lock_man]

If its a sand substrate your using it will take a while to settle with a filter pumping, don't worry about the spiking when you see the ammonia don't just water change straight away or its going to prolong the cycle you need to give the bacteria a chance  but if it gets to 1ppm then your going to  want to do a 50% water change, you need to get some "tetra safe start with live bacteria" its the best I have used for getting tanks going and I have to ask are you using declinator ?

 
 

When I change the water yes that was before TSS. Says not to use once you add TSS. And 1ppm total, I've been reading that you don't change water until 3 or 4 ppm total ammonia, and to add live good bacteria as you ammonia goes up to cycle faster and lower ammonia, as changing water makes it take longer. Is this true?

 
 
AAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Right, hopefully that got both of your attention! And anyone else who's reading this.
 
Any ammonia is harmful to fish. When you get to 1ppm, it's potentially lethal, let alone 3-4ppm. Ammonia burns the gills, damaging them, and therefore limiting their capacity for taking in oxygen. For prolonged periods of exposure, this damage is permanent. Once the ammonia enters the body, it burns the internals of the fish too, and damaging them. Rather like human smoking, that damage isn't always obvious straight away, it can take a while to manifest itself.
 
The aim of any fish-in cycle (whether you are using TSS or Dr.Tims, or nothing) is to grow filter bacteria without damaging fish. Therefore you need to keep your ammonia (and nitrite) down below 0.25ppm at ALL times. That means testing water everyday, and usually changing water.
 
If you test water, and see a level of up to 0.5ppm of either ammonia or nitrite, change 75% of the water. If you see between 0.5 and 1ppm, change 90% of the water. Anything over 1ppm, do muiltiple water changes of 90% so that you don't see a reading when you test again. If you see 0ppm for either ammonia or nitrite, don't change any water.
 
In a standard fish-in cycle, initially you will be changing water every day, but as time goes on and the bacterial colonies grow, you will find a day when you don't have to - but you will the next day. And then you can go 2 days. And then 3, 4, 5. Once you can go 7 days without changing water, then your filter is cycled - you can then go to a weekly maintenance schedule of weekly water changes, bearing in mind that if you increase the bioload (ie add more fish) the bacteria will have to grow to accommodate the increased ammonia, so you may have to do more daily water changes whilst the bacteria play catch-up.
 
What TSS, Dr.Tim's and the myriad other Bacteria-In-A-Bottle products aim to do is to decrease the time it takes for the bacteria to grow. Many of these products don't seem to work. There are some reliable claims that TSS and Dr.Tim's do work, if you follow the instructions correctly. I've never used either, so I'm not going to comment, but ultimately, you still have to keep the ammonia down to a maximum of 0.25ppm.
 
To answer Ky's point about having to give the bacteria a chance, a filter WILL cycle at ammonia levels that are not readable by our hobbyists' test kits.
 
To answer Brian's query about whether a cycle would take longer if you keep the ammonia down, well, yes it will. BUT, and this is the main point, the fish won't die. The fish won't be sitting in a pool of toxic fluid the whole time. Go sniff a bottle of household ammonia, trust me you'll only do it once. So, you can tell from doing so that ammonia is pretty vile stuff. So don't insist upon your fish having to respirate in this stuff. Please.
 
Just to fill out the whole picture for you, let's just touch upon nitrite as well. Nitrite poisoning is also called Brown Blood Disease because, guess what, it turns the blood brown. What it does is to attach itself to the haemoglobin in the fish's blood, and prevent it from carrying oxygen - it's oxygen which turns blood the red colour. What it means for the fish, obviously, is that it suffocates them. So keeping levels of this poison down is also a very good idea.

 

[ky*weremiej]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

 
I agree the ammonia should be zero and it is in my tanks but realistically not everyone new to the hobby is going to stand next to the tank doing water change, water change, water change, I don't disagree with anything your saying in any way. I learnt the hard way and ended up doing 2 water changes a day for the first week after educating myself about the hobby.

 

[the_lock_man]

No-one's expecting them to, that's what the 0.25ppm "limit" is for. I didn't actually say 0ppm, for that very reason.

 

[ky*weremiej]

I honestly really struggled an was hitting 1ppm the first few weeks, but I got there in the end.