Im new here looking for answers

[Essjay]

Nitrate 5 ppm - fine. Ideally it should be kept below 20 ppm, so yours is well below that.
Nitrite zero. Good, though keep an eye on it as it may go up.
Ammonia 0.5. Not so good depending on the pH.

pH, I am confused. Usually either the pH is somewhere in the middle of one of the testers and if it's in the middle of high range is the maximum on 'standard' or in the middle of 'standard' and the lowest reading on high range. And there is an overlap region between the two where 'standard' shows the highest level and high range shows the lowest which indicates around 7.5.

However, your readings are in the middle for both, which is impossible. Could you check those readings again please.


Back to ammonia.
Ammonia is a gas which dissolves in water into two forums - ammonia and ammonium. Ammonia is toxic to fish, ammonium is a lot less toxic. Both these forms exists at the same time, and the amount in each form depends on temperature and pH, and there are calculators to work out how much is in each form.
Using one of these calculators and assuming your temperature is 77 deg F (25 deg C), at pH 7.0 the amount in the ammonia form is 0.0029 ppm and the rest ammonium, while at pH 7.8 it is 0.0176 ppm with the rest ammonium. As you can see it's 6 times higher at pH 7.8 than at pH 7.0, which is why I asked you to check them.
At the moment, both of those amounts are OK - they are both below 0.05 ppm of the ammonia form. But if ammonia of the tester reading increases, the amount in the ammonia form will also increase.

There is another aspect to ammonia, and that's chloramine. Many water providers use this to disinfect their mains water. Chloramine is ammonia and chlorine joined together. Water conditioners split chloramine into ammonia and chlorine and remove the chlorine part, leaving the ammonia part in the water. Some of these conditioners also detoxify ammonia for around 24 hours, and in a cycled tank the filter bacteria will have 'eaten' all this ammonia before it has chance to "undetoxify". In an uncycled tank, it will still be there after 24 hours and will become toxic again.
Can I suggest you test your tap water for ammonia as this will show if it has chloramine in there, which could account for your tank reading.

 

[Tyler777]

Nitrate 5 ppm - fine. Ideally it should be kept below 20 ppm, so yours is well below that.
Nitrite zero. Good, though keep an eye on it as it may go up.
Ammonia 0.5. Not so good depending on the pH.

pH, I am confused. Usually either the pH is somewhere in the middle of one of the testers and if it's in the middle of high range is the maximum on 'standard' or in the middle of 'standard' and the lowest reading on high range. And there is an overlap region between the two where 'standard' shows the highest level and high range shows the lowest which indicates around 7.5.

However, your readings are in the middle for both, which is impossible. Could you check those readings again please.


Back to ammonia.
Ammonia is a gas which dissolves in water into two forums - ammonia and ammonium. Ammonia is toxic to fish, ammonium is a lot less toxic. Both these forms exists at the same time, and the amount in each form depends on temperature and pH, and there are calculators to work out how much is in each form.
Using one of these calculators and assuming your temperature is 77 deg F (25 deg C), at pH 7.0 the amount in the ammonia form is 0.0029 ppm and the rest ammonium, while at pH 7.8 it is 0.0176 ppm with the rest ammonium. As you can see it's 6 times higher at pH 7.8 than at pH 7.0, which is why I asked you to check them.
At the moment, both of those amounts are OK - they are both below 0.05 ppm of the ammonia form. But if ammonia of the tester reading increases, the amount in the ammonia form will also increase.

There is another aspect to ammonia, and that's chloramine. Many water providers use this to disinfect their mains water. Chloramine is ammonia and chlorine joined together. Water conditioners split chloramine into ammonia and chlorine and remove the chlorine part, leaving the ammonia part in the water. Some of these conditioners also detoxify ammonia for around 24 hours, and in a cycled tank the filter bacteria will have 'eaten' all this ammonia before it has chance to "undetoxify". In an uncycled tank, it will still be there after 24 hours and will become toxic again.
Can I suggest you test your tap water for ammonia as this will show if it has chloramine in there, which could account for your tank reading.

I will check the tap water first then I will re check the ph n hr ph n ammonia again

 

[Tyler777]

I will check the tap water first then I will re check the ph n hr ph n ammonia again

I just bought a cycle starter with good bacteria, even when my tank has fishes in it n it's not fully cycled can I add some of that starter kit in it ?

 

[MaloK]

With your last ammonia results, a good water change before adding your starter, will help your fishes a lot.

 

[Tyler777]

With your last ammonia results, a good water change before adding your starter, will help your fishes a lot.

Ok thanks for the advice. Now quick question.

If I do a 25% water change when I add the starter should I add enough to cover the 25% water change or I add enuff to cover the whole 46 gallons tank ?

With your last ammonia results, a good water change before adding your starter, will help your fishes a lot.

 

[Essjay]

Bacterial starters are the only product where it doesn't matter how much you add. Everything else should be added as per the dose rate on the product.
I'd add enough for the whole tank. But once you've finished it, I would not get any more. Many of these products say to add it at every water change, which is to make them money. These bacteria live in the biofilm which is tightly bound to surfaces. Water changes do not remove them.

 

[Naughts]

Bacterial starters are the only product where it doesn't matter how much you add. Everything else should be added as per the dose rate on the product.
I'd add enough for the whole tank. But once you've finished it, I would not get any more. Many of these products say to add it at every water change, which is to make them money. These bacteria live in the biofilm which is tightly bound to surfaces. Water changes do not remove them.

Sorry to offer contradictory information, I know this is confusing for newcomers. Tropco (UK company) state that dosing more than double on beneficial bacteria will cause bacteria to die off, which may lead to a nitrite spike. This is because the size of the bacteria population relies on the availability of food (ammonia in the form of fish waste), so any excess will die off.

It is not helpful that bacteria products base their dosage on water volume when it is the fish waste that dictates how much is needed. You may have ten little neons in 10 gallons or 100 gallons, the amount of waste will be about the same in either tank.

 

[Essjay]

Fishless cycling usually grows more bacteria than a sensibly stocked tank of fish will ever need but we don't hear about nitrite spikes after a fishless cycle caused by bacteria dying off.

I do wonder about the Tropco website. They say their product contains the 'wrong' nitrite eaters; they say their product shouldn't be used for fishless cycling etc. It makes me wonder if they really understand the process.



@TwoTankAmin Could you say who is correct, please. Is it safe to add more 'bottled bacteria' than the dose rate says, or will that cause a nitrite spike?

 

[Naughts]

Fishless cycling usually grows more bacteria than a sensibly stocked tank of fish will ever need but we don't hear about nitrite spikes after a fishless cycle caused by bacteria dying off.

I do wonder about the Tropco website. They say their product contains the 'wrong' nitrite eaters; they say their product shouldn't be used for fishless cycling etc. It makes me wonder if they really understand the process.



@TwoTankAmin Could you say who is correct, please. Is it safe to add more 'bottled bacteria' than the dose rate says, or will that cause a nitrite spike?

I’ll link the page for comprehensive info

Nitrico Stocking up Bacterial Goop Pouch

Tropical fish delivered to your door with a 7 day guarantee!

www.tropco.co.uk

“We do not recommend ever adding more than double dose to any aquarium as bacterial die off may cause a spike in nitrite.“

I’m pretty sure twotank looked at this before and confirmed they had made a mistake with the name of the bacteria in nitrico gloop? TFF users are consistently reporting it works.

 

[Tyler777]

Ok thanks for the advice. Now quick question.

If I do a 25% water change when I add the starter should I add enough to cover the 25% water change or I add enuff to cover the whole 46 gallons tank ?

Ok I just tested the water n this are the results.
PH ..................................7.6
High Range PH ..............7.6
Nitrate ............................0
Nitrite .............................0
Ammonia .......................1.0

Ammonia went up from o.50 to 1.0
Im doing a water change now
HIGH range PH .....7.6

Bacterial starters are the only product where it doesn't matter how much you add. Everything else should be added as per the dose rate on the product.
I'd add enough for the whole tank. But once you've finished it, I would not get any more. Many of these products say to add it at every water change, which is to make them money. These bacteria live in the biofilm which is tightly bound to surfaces. Water changes do not remove them.

Thank you brother. This really helps

Yes. A large one. If ammonia or nitrites are above 0, or nitrates are above 40 ppm, then a water change is always good way to go. If you're doing a fish in cycle, be prepared to do a water change every day or two.

Don't too often water changes stress the fishes out ?

 

[sharkweek178]

Ok I just tested the water n this are the results.
PH ..................................7.6
High Range PH ..............7.6
Nitrate ............................0
Nitrite .............................0
Ammonia .......................1.0

Ammonia went up from o.50 to 1.0
Im doing a water change now
HIGH range PH .....7.6

Thank you brother. This really helps

Don't too often water changes stress the fishes out ?

My fish love water changes. They hide during. But then after, they're active and swimming out in the open. Fish love clean fresh water.
Water changes don't stress fish out nearly as much as bad water parameters.

 

[Tyler777]

Not familiar with these tests as I use liquid kits but it seems you have water on the harder side. Your best bet is looking up which fish go well with hard water and plan your tank around that. I'm not sure how you ended up with your original stocking but if the shop misled you about compatability and water hardness you could ask to return most fish and get something more suitable. Eg gourami, betta and angels are soft water fish so not ideal for your water (as well as not being compatible more generally). Aside from this, as the tank is still not fully cycled I'd get a test kit that can read for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate as you need to be really on top of these during cycling.

I took my tap water to b test at petsmart n for my surprise the employee was an old guy with over a decade of fish keeping himself. Usually u only get kids with basic training in fish keeping.
Well regardless this guy tested my tap water n told me I have some of the best tap water he ever had bcause usually tap water isn't great but mine was great tap water . Dunno if to say yay !!!! Or what.
He said I only needed to add some water conditioner to it

Even if my tap water is the greatest I started a fishless cycling on a 10 gallons tank n the first 2 days the water was crystal clear now its getting a little cloudy. And the cloudiness in my 46 gallons tank never went away. I tried due to petsmart advice I tried the tetra bottle for cloudiness water n made the cloudiness 3 times clouded I even after 4 hours nothing change u could barely see the fish so I did an immediate water change.
Then I bought online another product that3 different websites said it was the most recommended product to get rid of cloudiness...... well, I didn't.
This morning I even started thinking my tank glass could b dirty so I got a aquarium scrapper n those 2 pieces magnet cleaner n cleaned the glass but water looks still the same.

 

[Tyler777]

My fish love water changes. They hide during. But then after, they're active and swimming out in the open. Fish love clean fresh water.
Water changes don't stress fish out nearly as much as bad water parameters.

That makes a lot of sense. I guess that when I take a shower n right after I feel so good fishes might feel the same way when they get a water change

 

[TwoTankAmin]

There is an amount of bacteria need to make a tank cycled. If you are adding starter bacteria you can add more than might be needed, but it is a waste of mney to add double of tripple the amount. If one is using the products which are allowed to contain Nitrospira , which is patented, then the advised amount is usually sufficient.

However, it must be put into the tank which has no chlorine left in the water and it is better that the dechlor does not contain an ammonia detoxifier. These turn the ammonia into ammonium. However, the bacteria want ammonia. They can process ammonium but they do so less efficiently. So using a dechlo with an ammonia detoxifier in it will not stop a cycle, they will just make it take longer.

If one adds way more nitrifiers than needed the excess bacteria will die off. This should not create a lot of ammonia but the result is dead bacteria are organic waste. This will feed other bacteria, especially the ones than can cause a bacterial bloom. It is important to understand that the size of the bacterial colony in a tank will always size to the ammonia load produced by the tank.

Every day some of the bacteria is dying while at the same time other bacteria are reproducing. As niote, ammonia levels determin if there are the proper number, too many or too few. If you add more fish to a tank, you need more bacteria and they reproduce faster, On the other hand if you remove fish from a tank, the rate of reproductuion slows toe be less than the rate of deaths. And the total number shrinks.

We may see a short ammonia spike when we add more fish, But this wont last very long unless the addition is substantial. One of the benefits of a fishless cycle is that you can fully stock a tank when the cycle is done.

 

[Tyler777]

There is an amount of bacteria need to make a tank cycled. If you are adding starter bacteria you can add more than might be needed, but it is a waste of mney to add double of tripple the amount. If one is using the products which are allowed to contain Nitrospira , which is patented, then the advised amount is usually sufficient.

However, it must be put into the tank which has no chlorine left in the water and it is better that the dechlor does not contain an ammonia detoxifier. These turn the ammonia into ammonium. However, the bacteria want ammonia. They can process ammonium but they do so less efficiently. So using a dechlo with an ammonia detoxifier in it will not stop a cycle, they will just make it take longer.

If one adds way more nitrifiers than needed the excess bacteria will die off. This should not create a lot of ammonia but the result is dead bacteria are organic waste. This will feed other bacteria, especially the ones than can cause a bacterial bloom. It is important to understand that the size of the bacterial colony in a tank will always size to the ammonia load produced by the tank.

Every day some of the bacteria is dying while at the same time other bacteria are reproducing. As niote, ammonia levels determin if there are the proper number, too many or too few. If you add more fish to a tank, you need more bacteria and they reproduce faster, On the other hand if you remove fish from a tank, the rate of reproductuion slows toe be less than the rate of deaths. And the total number shrinks.

We may see a short ammonia spike when we add more fish, But this wont last very long unless the addition is substantial. One of the benefits of a fishless cycle is that you can fully stock a tank when the cycle is done.

Thank you my friend