New tanks - overstocking I think

[CyprusSteve]

I have two tanks at present - and, I am fairly sure that you are going to tell me I am overstocked - they look fine at the moment, because all are small - the Gourami, for example, are about one inch in length, but, from my research I realise they get a lot bigger.
I am happy to move some fish from tank to tank, and, I have a friend who can take some fish from me if I need to thin.
Here are my present size and stock :
TANK 1 - 65 litres
2 x Golden Gourami
2 x Silver Gourami
2x Crown loach
2 x Sucker catfish ( pleco )

TANK 2 - 250 litres
5 x Red Rainbow
2 x Clown Loach
4 x Golden Gourami
2 x Blue 3 spot Gourami
6 x Dwarf Gourami
3 x Sucking catfish ( pleco )
10 x Neon Tetra
10 x Red Tetra

It may help if I list my preferences.
I would like more small shoaling fish - probably neon tetras, zebra danio, and perhaps black widows.
I am certain you are going to tell me to cut back on the Gourami - if so, which ones should I lose, and, how many ?
I love the Red Rainbow - I would be very sorry to lose them.
The clown loach are small , but, I believe they cam grow very big, and also eat other fish - do you think I should get rid of these now, before they become a problem ?
I am VERY new to this, and, although I have been doing lots of research, I realise that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing - I would be happy to hear your views as to building a peaceful community tank, with colour, and, preferably fish who can occupy different water levels without fighting.
I wouild prefer to take action now, rather than create a problem later.
Thanks in advance.
Steve

 

[Annastasia]

Okay. So.

In tank one (Don't mind me if I convert to gallons, it makes it easier for me), we have:

2 x Golden Gourami
2 x Silver Gourami
2x Crown loach
2 x Sucker catfish ( pleco )

And this is about 17 US Gallons, I believe. Soooo...I would get rid of the Clown Loaches, and Pleco in this tank, since they both can grow to 12". Your Gouramis might become aggressive, if they are all males, so watch for that. And I'm guessing Silver Gouramis are Moonlight Gouramis? In which case they grow to 4-6", and should probably have a bigger tank. You might be able to have one Gold Gourami in there. Or...take a couple of the Dwarf Gouramis from your other tank, and put them in here.

Now...tank 2. I take this to be about 66 US Gallons.

5 x Red Rainbow
2 x Clown Loach
4 x Golden Gourami
2 x Blue 3 spot Gourami
6 x Dwarf Gourami
3 x Sucking catfish ( pleco )
10 x Neon Tetra
10 x Red Tetra

In here...I would get rid of 2 Plecos...and maybe the Clown Loaches, since I believe they should be in a 75 gal minimum. You could keep them in here longer then you could keep them in the other tank, since they grow to 6" pretty fast, but after that, they slow down in growing. Also, watch for the Gouramis to be fighting again. Golden Gouramis and 3 spot Gouramis are the same species, so the males can be aggressive with each other. Maybe thin down to 2 Goldens, and 1-2 Three Spots? If they have enough room, and plants and rocks and caves to stake out territory in, I THINK that should be okay. But, I have never kept males together before.
Dwarf Gouramis I have found to be pretty peaceful together...but 6 might be pushing it. Maybe put 2 in the other tank, and have 3 in here?

The Tetra and Rainbowfish numbers seem good.

Soooo...

Here's a possibility:

Tank One:
2 x Dwarf Gouramis

In this tank, I'd get a few smaller fish...maybe a school of Cories, and a few Livebearers. Or Tetras. Or Danios.

Tank Two:
5 x Red Rainbow
2 x Golden Gourami
2 x Blue 3 spot Gourami
2 x Dwarf Gourami
10 x Neon Tetra
10 x Red Tetra
1 x Pleco

Perhaps in this tank, you could put the Moonlights in, and get rid of either the Goldens or 3 Spot Gouramis? Also...maybe a small school of Cories. And add a bit on to the Rainbowfish school, make it 8 or so.


Okay...I'll stop going on now. It really depends on what fish YOU like, and want to keep. I'm sure everyone will be happy to work with you, and get you a peaceful community tank(s).

Now...these are just my opinions, and I'm sure other people will have others, so you may want to wait and see what they say too.

 

[bluefire]

yeah i agree, just take out all the big fish

 

[dwarfgourami]

Same here; particularly the 65 litres is a typical small-fish tank.

I would disagree with getting danios for it, though, as they need more room to move, they are very fast swimmers. Get those for the big tank or not at all. Tetras tend to need good water quality, so that's one thing to keep in mind. Some are more hardy though so it's a question of more reading. Small livebearers, like guppies or platys would certainly be happy in there, and so would corys.

You don't mention the sex of your dwarf gouramis- are they all males? I think in the small tank 2 males might get a bit territorial, but don't quote me on that. I may be wrong.

The 3 things to keep in mind when stocking a tank are:

bioload

need for space

territoriality

Plecos are grow and are heavy waste producers so will cause bioload problems in anything but a largish tank.

Danios are fast swimmers so need more room than you would think for their size.

Male gouramis can get very territorial.

Good on you, for taking action quick, rather than waiting for disaster.

 

[CyprusSteve]

The Pleco I have is hypostomus plecostomus - I think common name is upside down catfish - spends most of time cleaning - maybe I should give him a job in my home
OK - I can see from the profile they get big - is it best to get rid now, or, like the Clown Loach, keep a while until they get umanageable ?
The bigger fish will be fairly easy to net - I think the pleco and clown loach will be more difficult - any suggestions ?
Many thanks for the input so far.
Regards
Steve

 

[Annastasia]

Hypostomus plecostomus is the Common Pleco...sooo, do you have an Upside down Catfish, and this is just the wrong scientific name? Or, do you have a Common?

Now that I think about, DwarfGourami is right. 17 gallons is a bit on the small side for Danios.

In the 17 gallon, if you DO decide to put in the Dwarfs, just watch them. Sometimes this works, sometimes this doesn't. You might have to get rid of another one. Usually if you have plants, and rocks, and caves, they will stake out their own territory, and only have a problem if the other guy goes around their territory. Also, put them in at the same time, so one doesn't get the idea the whole tank is his.

I'd get the Clown Loaches out of the smaller tank right away. They could stay in the bigger tank a little longer....

As for catching..here's what I do:

I take a jar, and put some Zucchini, or Cucumber, or Lettuce, or whatever they like. Stick it in the tank, and then wait for the fish to go inside. Once they do, I put the lid on, and take them out, then transfer them to wherever they need to be.

 

[CyprusSteve]

I think the Latin name is the one I have - he sucks the right way up on the glass - so I guess this is the common one you refer to.
Interesting about catching the loach - I guess one does it at night - mine stay hidden most of the day - I am surprised they do not come out of the jar as soon as you pick it up ot get near it, but, I will try
I have qute a few rocks and pots - plus plants - so, I hope that helps.

 

[Annastasia]

If he sucks up the glass, he's definately a Common. So, he's going to get way too big for your smaller tank. And, I think you could keep one in your big tank...if you want to. They are really big waste producers. Other possibilities are you could try a smaller Pleco, like a Common Bristlenose. Or just have no Pleco. As for the smaller tank...if you want an algae eater, Ottos are good.

Oh...and my jar method I've only used for Plecos. They are so busy eating, they don't notice the lid. Loaches...do. They are smart little things.

For Loaches, I have to use a couple big nets. Use one net to herd them into another.

If you have pots and caves and plants, I can't see any problem at all with your Gouramis. Just watch them though...

Good luck with your tanks!

 

[CyprusSteve]

Good information - Thanks - having looked them up. like the idea of cories and platy .
I will definitely thin out my Gourami - do you think I could keep one Golden one on its own in the smaller tank, with a couple of dwarf gourami ?
I can see that catching the loach is going to be a headache - maybe best to wait until I do a gravel clean and take out all the hiding places?

 

[Annastasia]

Mmm..that might be pushing it. Goldens are more territorial and aggressive then Dwarfs. I've personally never kept Goldens with Dwarfs, though, so I don't know what would happen.

Cories and Platies are great fish. Just remember, Cories like to be in schools too, so get at least 4. And Platies...if you get males and females...you'll have TONS of babies. So, you might want to just get females. Or males.

Yeah..I'd definately take out all the hiding places for the Loaches, or they will outsmart you every time!

 

[CyprusSteve]

6am - Just done 20% water change - reading taken after this has crept up a bit - about 3 I think - not good. It is maybe about 10 days since I set up the tank , so, according to advice I have received, and the Nitrogen cycle chart I have about another 4 days of pain to go through before nitrites begin to drop and Nitrates to form - is this about right ?
Also, the Golden Gourami have started to try and jump out of the water when I open the lid - is this normal - or, stress related - one actually succeeded, landed on the floor, but, I got him back up pretty fast in a net.

 

[3fsh]

Has the tank been cycled yet? If not, you'd better get them back to your LFS in a hurry or you are going to have a lot of dead fish on your hands. Fish jumping out of the water (in your case) indicates poor water quality....