New Tank - Ph Whoas

[mrfishie51]

New to salties, so I'm going with afforable fish.. until I can get a handle on it.

1) clownfish (I need Nemo for my lil girl)
2) Yellow-Tail Damselfish
3) Domino
4) Yellow tang maybe? up for suggestions?!!?

I'm still baffled to why when I get my PH to about ~ 8.0, the next time I add buffer to my tank it blows up... My tank just cleared backup... I took a PH reading and poof back down to 7.4 it did that just in a few hours...

To recap:

This morning PH ~8.0 I added same marine buffer dosage per instructions (everyday for a couple days now) to get to the recommended PH level of 8.2-8.4 and poof tank went cloudy, film on sides of glass.... now in about 12 hrs later my tank is cleared back up, but the darn thing is back down to PH level of 7.4...
maybe next time I'll just leave the sob @ 8.0 and see how the fish do... any suggestions?!?

 

[tttnjfttt]

Ok, now this makes sense. You are right, salt water fish need ot have their pH altered up to 8.2 - 8.4. I have no idea what would cause the pH to drop that drastically. What is the pH, KH and GH of your tap water?

In this forum, the tropical fish section really refers to fresh water tropicals. On the main page, scroll down about 2/3 of the way, and there is a salt water section. I'm sorry I can't be more help, but i really only know about fresh water tropicals, where you don't mess with the pH.

Good Luck!!!

 

[andywg]

If you use marine salt with a reef designed substrate (live sand or crushed coral) then the pH should naturally sit around the 8.2 mark.

Best bet is to ask down in the salty section as those guys know their stuff and don't bite.

 

[reg2k2]

The water softener would be the culprit. Any faucets free of the system?
Soft water normally has low GH and KH (which affects pH)...with buffers, you're trying to bring these levels up.

No idea why the level would drop after adding more, unless this involves more water or you only 'thought' the pH was still at 8.0...?

 

[Native American]

WELL,

MY WATER WAS EXTREMLY HARD UNTIL I BOUGHT A NEW WATERSOFTNER.. NOW ITS EXTREMLY SOFT... AS FAR AS FISH... NO FISH YET.... JUST TRYING TO GET THE TANK TO "IDEAL" PH LEVELS...

Is your water softener an ion exchange type? I.e., do you add salt to a brine tank in your home's water softening system? If so, you are changing hardness only as far as general home water usage goes (i.e., less soap for laundry, skin feels better after a shower, etc.). These systems work by exchanging the Mg++ or Ca++ ions present in hard water with two sodium ions (Na+). You will still have dissolved solids in your water, and the fish will still have to contend with the osmotic stress of this stuff in the water. This will hinder your attempts at stabilizing your water chemistry.

I've never done a marine tank setup, but my understanding is that you start with unadulterated pure water out of an RO (reverse osmosis) unit and add salt/buffers to get the proper salinity and hardness with the proper pH as a result of all this. Am I way off, here?

v/r, N-A

 

[gadazobe]

As you want to deal with marine fish, I thought you might get more info in the saltwater section, so I moved your post there.

Gada

 

[richard t]

You sound like you are having problems . Mostly your problem is using tap water. If you refill your tank using RO water, the coral sustrate will bring your water to a more suitable PH level

( Do not mean to offend, but if you are unsure about RO water, check the pinned topics)

 

[J-Money]

I agree you need to use R/O water...other than that the only thing i would add is I don't think a Yellow Tang would work well in a 55g tank

 

[wheelyfeet]

New to salties, so I'm going with afforable fish.. until I can get a handle on it.

1) clownfish (I need Nemo for my lil girl)
2) Yellow-Tail Damselfish
3) Domino
4) Yellow tang maybe? up for suggestions?!!?

I'm still baffled to why when I get my PH to about ~ 8.0, the next time I add buffer to my tank it blows up... My tank just cleared backup... I took a PH reading and poof back down to 7.4 it did that just in a few hours...

To recap:

This morning PH ~8.0 I added same marine buffer dosage per instructions (everyday for a couple days now) to get to the recommended PH level of 8.2-8.4 and poof tank went cloudy, film on sides of glass.... now in about 12 hrs later my tank is cleared back up, but the darn thing is back down to PH level of 7.4...
maybe next time I'll just leave the sob @ 8.0 and see how the fish do... any suggestions?!?

The chemicals that are buffering your tank water are reacting to the chemicals in the product you are adding. Every time your tank pH "blows up" (which probably isn't too far off of what the chemical reaction is - ever mix vinegar and baking soda?), the conflicting buffers are reacting to produce water and salts. So your salinity is being effected. I would start over. Sorry. But by now you've got all kinds of buffers in your water. Even if you can somehow get everything just right, you will have a difficult time duplicating it when you do your essential water changes.

Native American makes an excellent point. Almost everything I've read says to start with RO/DI water. You've got additional problems with a home softener unit. If you use an RO unit after the softener, the RO unit will remove the Na+ ions left by the softener. However, every softener and RO unit differs in efficiency so it is best to have a thorough check of your water done after it has gone through processing.

The salt mixes you use assume you don't already have salts in your water. They also add some buffering chemicals. Also, proper pH type products are assuming that you have neutral water.

 

[steelhealr]

Just popped in here. Wheely feet is right on track. First off, why are you fighting your pH? One thing that we should all learn, which is why we have this great forum, is to know exactly why you are making changes in your tank's pH, what are you trying to achieve, and then, knowing how to do a proper pH change and how to deal with the changes it brings about. NEVER DOSE YOUR TANK OR TREAT A NUMBER UNLESS YOU KNOW YOUR LEVELS AND YOU HAVE A TEST KIT TO MEASURE YOUR CHANGE!!!

Although optimum marine pH IS about 8.2, there is no HARD reason to keep it there unless there is a need for your livestock to have it there. Many marine fishes are very hardy. I have pH swings at night even with chaeto, good aeration, etc. I buffer mostly to maintain CALCIUM levels, which I think may be one of the culprits here. Rapid pH changes may precipitate out calcium, or mentioned above, form salts that will precipitate out of solution.

Reasons for altering your marine tank's pH:

1) you crustaceans will have their shells go soft OVER THE LONG RUN
2) a well stocked tank with LPS, SPS corals and coralline algae with require a pH of 8.2 to incorporate calcium into the 'skeletons'
3) proper calcium levels

Poor reasons for altering your pH:
1) my tank isn't at 8.2 exaclty
2) new/immature tanks with a low pH
3) not understanding the calcium/alkalinity status of your tank

A few questions:
1) what is your calcium level?
2) what is your alkalinity?
3) are you using a salt with good magnesium levels?

just to start. SH

 

[mrfishie51]

quote " Is your water softener an ion exchange type? I.e., do you add salt to a brine tank in your home's water softening system? If so, you are changing hardness only as far as general home water usage goes (i.e., less soap for laundry, skin feels better after a shower, etc.). These systems work by exchanging the Mg++ or Ca++ ions present in hard water with two sodium ions (Na+). You will still have dissolved solids in your water, and the fish will still have to contend with the osmotic stress of this stuff in the water. This will hinder your attempts at stabilizing your water chemistry."

Explains it... exactly Before new bad a$$ water softner we had terrible hard water & calcium problems....

My tank is starting to level off around 8.0 again... funny I'm starting to see the same calcium deposits near the bottom of the tank as we had in our sinks ect.. ect...

I'm just not going to worry 'about add'n more buffer to get to the magical 8.2... gunna add some fish and see what happens... besides that fish is about as cheap as the darn buffer I keep adding

One thought... I could collect the water in my brine discharge and use that to fill my tank ;-P See if dem buggers like that water....

I'd hate to have to buy my water for my tank..... avion anyone ;P

In all seriousiness... thanks fellas.... you've all been helpful

 

[steelhealr]

Until you comment on what your alkalinity is and calcium level, we can't be of any help with this. SH

 

[Opcn]

RO/DI or distilled water will yield much better results IME.