New fish keeper, new tank questions!

[NewFishPerson]

Hi,

Just recently got hold of my first ever fish tank! it was completely free because it leaked like a sieve, I used black marine safe silicone from my neighbor to repair the seals after reading and watching online articles about how to restore a tank. I've had it sat outside in a shed and it has held the water perfectly for a couple of weeks now, my reseal job looks fairly good so I'm confident the seals will hold. I've repaired the light fixture and installed a new lighting ballast, it now has a tri-phosphor 18w T8 6500K tube in there. The tank dimensions are W32" x D12" x H15" which roughly equates to 25 US gallons.

I purchased a freshwater liquid test kit and a few chemicals in preparation for cycling the tank. My pH is 7.9 after letting the water sit for a few days - I live in a hard water area. What fish would be appropriate for the size of tank and the water I have? I originally wanted to keep Tetras but I've read they'll die off in my water. My fish keeping experience is limited to watching YouTube videos and reading articles in other words, I'm a beginner! I do know about cycling; getting ammonia and nitrite to drop to zero in 12h before adding fish so no worries there, I have plenty of time to wait.

I plan to have a few live plants - namely Java Fern, Java Moss and Anubias nana on driftwood. Would the 18w T8 be sufficient for these plants? I've read that they are all low light plants, but I want to be sure that the lighting is good enough as I could change the lighting before I seal the ballast in the lid.

The tank came with a heater, its an Ebo Jager heater 125w and it seems to work perfectly. It got the tank up to temperature in a couple of hours and has held it there steady whenever I've measured it. Is it worth replacing this as I have no idea how old this is or are they generally reliable?

I'd also like to paint the back glass pane black to make the aquascape more visually appealing. Is there a particular type of paint that is recommended to do this? Ideally one that can be removed without a great deal of effort is preferable in case I ever decide to change the background.

Last question is about filtration.. What would be the best type of filter to go for in this tank? The person I picked the tank up from said he was using a small external filter before the tank sprung a leak, he gave me an internal filter which he said probably wouldn't work - he was correct. I did try replacing the impeller however it just vibrates on the impeller shaft and doesn't pump water. Ideally the new filter needs to be quiet, easy to clean while doing the job of keeping the water healthy. External or internal is fine, I have no preference as long as it does the job.

Sorry for all of the questions
Thanks

 

[HazMatt]

I can't answer all of your questions but,

Filtration depends on the type of fish you chose, some like lots of flow, some don't. I've recently learned that simple air powered, sponge filters are well respected in many setups. If the fish you chose fish that like lots of flow, a hang on the tank power filter can do the job.

A good place to look at different fish species, www.seriouslyfish.com is an excellent resource. Register on the sight and set up your profile options. Most of the measurements are metric and Celsius but, the profile lets you change the measurements into inches and Fahrenheit.

Seriously Fish gives the water quality, temperature and tank size requirements, as well as whether the species should be kept in groups and what size groups. Some species profiles even give suggestions for other tank mates.

From my limited research, the plants you mentioned should be fine with the lighting you mentioned.

I'm sure someone with more experience than myself will reply before too long. Good luck and welcome to the hobby.

 

[Byron]

Welcome to TFF.

Assuming the T8 18w is the 24-inch tube, and provided it is a good manufacture, it will provide sufficient lighting for low light and some moderate light plants, over a tank this size. For good manufacture I mean a Life-Glo (this is bar none the best single tube light) or something similar. I have a single 24-inch Life-|Glo over both my 29g tanks, and a dual 24-inch over the 33g and 40g which are 3 feet length.

Jager heaters are well made; no idea of the age or past use/handling, but as a heater a reliable one.

For the background, what works ideally is a piece of black construction paper. I use this on all my under-4 foot tanks. A single sheet may allow you to cut it to fit, or you can tape together. This is a non-shiny finish so there are minimal reflections, and the back of the tank all but disappears. Fish and plant colours stand out, and the tank appears deeper (in width).

I agree a sponge filter may be the best. Smallish tanks mean smallish forest fish, and they do not appreciate water currents. I use a dual sponge on all my smaller tanks from a 40g down to the 20g, and a single sponge on the 10g.

Track down the web site of your municipal water authority and you may find the GH, KH and pH. The GH is the most important for fish. Once we have these numbers, we can consider fish species.

Byron.

 

[NewFishPerson]

Thanks for the replies!

I've checked out and registered on seriously fish, loads of information on there so very helpful! I watched a video by aquarium coop regarding sponge filters and he had good things to say about them so I'll likely go down a similar route. My only worry is they're going to be noisy with all of the bubbling. Would something like this: http://www.aquael.com/en/products/akwarystyka/filtry-wewnetrzne/251-pat-mini be a good compromise? It's essentially a sponge filter with a small pump and vortex aerator stuck on top of it.

Filtration is one of the things that confuses me most, I understand mechanical and chemical filtration, it's biological filtration that remains a bit of a mystery to me - more specifically biological medias and how much you really need. Perhaps it's just me being a bit of a cynic, but even as someone completely new to the hobby I'm finding a lot of the claims the various bio-media manufacturers are making hard to believe when I've seen experienced fish keepers keep heavily stocked tanks with nothing more than sponge filters!

Anyway, I've looked up water parameters for my municipal water and they are as follows:
Calcium (mg/l) 103
Calcium Carbonate (mg/l) 265
Degrees Clark (UK) 18.55
Degrees German (dH) 14.84
Degrees French (f) 26.5

pH wasn't listed, I've measured it with two liquid test kits after the water was sat in just a plain heated tank for a couple of days and the readings were between 7.8 and 8.1. I have an old electronic meter I've not used in a while (it is uncalibrated until I can get hold of more calibration solutions) and it was reading pH8.05 for what it's worth.

I'm not sure what type of fish to keep, without sounding silly, every time I start researching fish I come away feeling a bit overwhelmed. I visited the local fish shop today just to mark a few names down but came away more confused than when I went in! I do prefer smaller fish, the smaller Tetras would have been ideal but I'm assuming my water is going to be unfit for them. Larger fish like Gourami - while visually striking - wern't really my thing, something small and active would be perfect I think.

Black construction paper is a good idea! I'm pretty sure I have some laying around and will be easy enough to attach with a bit of tape! For the decorations I have a few pieces of natural slate that from that would fill the tank nicely. I tried the acid test on the slate with a drop of HCI and there was no fizzing I'm hoping that means its suitable. For substrate I'm probably going to go with a neutral gray colour sand of some sort. Haven't thought ahead that far yet!

Thanks.

 

[Byron]

Filtration is one of the things that confuses me most, I understand mechanical and chemical filtration, it's biological filtration that remains a bit of a mystery to me - more specifically biological medias and how much you really need. Perhaps it's just me being a bit of a cynic, but even as someone completely new to the hobby I'm finding a lot of the claims the various bio-media manufacturers are making hard to believe when I've seen experienced fish keepers keep heavily stocked tanks with nothing more than sponge filters!

Surprisingly, filtration is not that well understood by many in the hobby, and there are some long-standing myths. Like "more filtration is better," when actually nothing could be more inaccurate.

Biological filtration will naturally occur in any aquarium with fish. The nitrifying bacteria colonize surfaces primarily in the filter media and the substrate. Provided the tank is not overstocked, you really don't need to even consider biological filtration (as with all the expensive bio-media being "essential") because it will exist at the level required no matter what the media or how many filters. However, it is possible to have the flow too great so the biological filtration is hampered. I like to think of having no filter at all; I had a 10g like this for a year. If the tank can manage without a filter, it shows just how little we need them.

Mechanical filtration is actually the more important to consider, as this removes microscopic and larger particulate matter by trapping it in sponges, foam, filter floss; these are the best traps. And the water flow into and from the filter is critical. This is where sponge filters are so incredible, in tanks with small fish that like quiet water. I use the dual sponge filter shown below. Hagen used to make these under the name Elite, but for some reason they stopped but several manufacturers do make them, I got my last three through Amazon. I added a single sponge filter to my 10g non-filter tank because of the water clarity which did improve with the sponge. It also gives a bit of circulation which is not a bad thing, provided it is not too much for the fish.

Chemical filtration I never bother with; I have live plants in all my tanks, even if just floating plants. And that is the end of chemical filtration. Provided again the tank is biologically balanced.

I watched a video by aquarium coop regarding sponge filters and he had good things to say about them so I'll likely go down a similar route. My only worry is they're going to be noisy with all of the bubbling. Would something like this: http://www.aquael.com/en/products/akwarystyka/filtry-wewnetrzne/251-pat-mini be a good compromise? It's essentially a sponge filter with a small pump and vortex aerator stuck on top of it.

Noise depends where the tank is placed. In a bedroom, this would bother me because I am a very light sleeper. But otherwise, chances are you will never hear the sponge filter unless you think about it, assuming you have it regulated correctly. You don't need a torrent of air going through it.

I don't know the linked filter, but |I have used a couple similar, though they were inside a small housing. Eheim make these, and they are much the same idea without an air pump. This is the one I am now using in my 33g tank:
https://www.eheim.com/en_GB/products/technology/internal-filters/new-mini
Although it is rated for tanks up to 30 liters (8 gallons), it is doing a terrific job in my 33. But I admit this is largely because I want so little filtration. To be honest, a dual sponge would be a better choice. Depends upon the fish load of course.

On your other items. Slate is inert, so that is OK. I tried it for a time, but didn't like it because of its flatness, but it can be useful. Rounded river rock, available from landscape and gardening places, is ideal. You can get it in different sized pebbles, and make a nice forest stream or river scape with sand or fine gravel and lots of this rock. It is rounded and inert.

Your water is fairly hard. Some fish will manage, but many of the type you prefer will find this difficult. I won't get into this more here, except to say that reducing GH/KH/pH is safest when "pure" water is used to dilute the tap water. Example, mixing half tap with half pure will reduce the GH/KH by half, and the pH will lower.

I'll attach a photo of my 40g to show an Amazon flooded forest, this tank uses two T8 24-inch tubes and a dual sponge filter. There are some 45-50 fish.

 

[NewFishPerson]

I'll give the dual sponge filter a go, certain I saw that model in the fish shop selling cheap so an easy choice. I was going to buy an air pump anyway so the extra cost from that is of little concern. The tank is going to be situated in a study/man cave so it doesn't need to be silent, just quiet will suffice. The engineer in me likes that sponge filters are so simple, very little to go wrong with the added benefit in power outage I can easily hook up a battery powered air pump.

Looking at some of the fish I had marked down on my list I've noticed the White Cloud Mountain Minnow fits the bill. On the seriouslyfish website Hazmatt recommended it is saying:
pH: 6.0 – 8.5
Hardness: 90 – 357 ppm

Quite a wide range for both pH and hardness and my water is approaching the outer limits, but still inside. I also notice its natural habitat is listed as soft acidic water. The fish I was most interested in when I bought the tank was a large group of Ember Tetra, sadly the required water parameters are far outside the range of my tap water. Mixing water would require me purchasing DI water to mix in and if I'm honest with myself, I'm not sure I want to make that sort of commitment. The white cloud mountain minnow ticks a lot of boxes for me if it's doable, it's apparently a hardy fish, very active and I do think it's quite a striking looking with the red fin and neon tetra like stripe down its body. A planted species only tank with 10+ of these is appealing! I've also noticed they require a cooler temperature than other tropical fish, I could probably set the heater to room temperature 21C so that most of the time the ambient air will keep the tank at the correct temperature with the heater only being there to stabilize the water temperature overnight say.

Forgive the stupid question, but on the seriouslyfish site I've noticed that it will sometimes list acceptable hardness ranges for example of 5-15°H. Does the '°H' refer to Degrees German (dH) 14.84 like I listed in my water hardness above?

Your 40g tank is beautiful by the way, it certainly conveys the Amazon flooded forest theme well. Is the water coloured like that due to tannins or because of the cameras white balance being off? I've noticed a trend where a lot of people will try their hardest to remove the colouration from leaching tannins however I find that I actually quite like the look, perhaps I'm just a bit weird

Thank you again!

 

[Essjay]

We use two hardness units in fishkeeping, there are about half a dozen altogether.
These two are German degrees, called degrees or dH in fish profiles; and mg/l CaCO3, which is called ppm in fish profiles.



I noticed your comment on cycling with ammonia until they clear to zero in 12 hours. This sounds as though you have been reading the "add ammonia every time it drops to zero" method. There is another method written up on here http://www.fishforums.net/threads/cycling-your-new-fresh-water-tank-read-this-first.421488/ With the older method, so much ammonia was added that it made so much nitrite that the cycle stalled. The method on here was written so that nitrite can never get high enough to stall things.

 

[HazMatt]

Byron linked me to seriouslyfish.com so, the credit goes to him.

 

[Byron]

Essjay explained the GH units. White clouds are quite adaptable, and heaters really are not necessary if this is the only fish (provided the room does not get too cold at night, in the 60's F is OK.

The "warm" tone of the photo of my tank is partially due to tannins mainly from the oak leaves. But primarily it is the lighting. I rebuilt the T8 fixture and use two 24-inch 20w T8 tubes, so I can mix the spectrum. One tube is always a Life-Glo 6700K. For the second tube, I try to get a warmer white, in the 5000K range. The best one I have found so far, and the second tube ion this tank, is a ZooMed Tropic Sun 5500K. Unfortunately, it seems they no longer make these, not in T8 anyway; I bought the last two I could find online. T8 tubes need replacing about every 12 months, as the light intensity weakens the longer it burns, and after 12 months or so I do see an increase in algae with a lessening of plant growth, indicating the light is weakened. So I have one tube for next year, then I'll have to see what I can track down, or use two Life-Glo. I tried the Sun-Glo which is 4200K and it was too orange.

The Kelvin number is the colour temperature of light. The lower the number, the warmer the light because the reds are higher with less blue. The higher the number, the more blue and less red so it is cooler light. Marine tanks need high blue, actinic and such, and the K for these is somewhere around 9000K to 12000K. Mid-day sun is around 6000K, so using tubes in the 5000K to 7000K range should provide the best light. And tubes around 6000K render colours true. When the option is just one tube or bulb, Daylight 6500K works best.

 

[NewFishPerson]

I've got hold of the filter now, went with an Eheim internal filter similar to the one you linked to earlier Byron. The chap at the fish store said he used them personally in three of his own tanks and vouched for how quiet and reliable they are. It has a vortex tube for aeration on the outflow and from testing it myself it is very quiet - flow isn't completely ridiculous either so the fish wont be blown around the tank! Going to try and get everything setup by the end of next week so I can start the tank off cycling. Not sure how that is going to go as I've just found out I'm being admitted to hospital in a couple of weeks time, I'm hoping I will only be there a couple of days. If I remember I'll post some pictures up when I have everything up and running!

I'm running a single T8 tube on the tank. I changed the old burnt out ballast and fitted a new electronic one I had spare. The tube itself is good quality 6500K Triphosphor, It's not made for specifically for aquariums, but I doubt that will matter all that much. To be honest this is a first experimental tank, if the lighting isn't particularly great I can crack the lid open again and install something else.

 

[NewFishPerson]

One last question (sorry!)

Would Endler Guppy hybrids do well in the water and tank size that I have? Was browsing in the fish store and came across these tiny little wonders, was blown away by how stunning looking they are!

Calcium (mg/l) 103
Calcium Carbonate (mg/l) 265
Degrees Clark (UK) 18.55
Degrees German (dH) 14.84
Degrees French (f) 26.5
pH 8.0

Tank size: W32" x D12" x H15" ~25USG or W80cm x D30cm H38cm ~90 litres.

I've purchased my substrate! Have gone for light river sand, medium to large light coloured pebbles and a large piece of rock that I already have (acid tested, should be water safe). Was inspired by this tank (http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/features/articles/how-to-set-up-a-white-cloud-biotope) I saw when looking up white cloud mountain minnows. Going to try for a similar look to this but with 3x Java Ferns in there as I do enjoy an aquatic plant or two! I also impulse purchased a water lettuce floating plant they had on sale hehe.

Ok, one more question. Do I need to put anything on the bottom of my tank to protect the glass from the rock, or is it ok to leave it alone? I'm not worried about scratches, more a rock exiting from the tank when theres 90L of water in there

Thanks again

 

[Byron]

Water parameters are fine for Endler's, like all livebearers they require moderately hard or harder water which you have.

Provided the rock, especially any largish chunks, is sitting on the glass and not on sand which can move, you should have no problems. Though I cannot say how heavy the chunks might be and how strong the glass and seal is, but with sand, wood and water in my tanks I have never had issues, and water itself is very heavy (10 lbs per gallon I believe).

Nothing at all wrong with a few plants. Useful and attractive, and fish do like browsing them.

 

[NewFishPerson]

Excellent, thank you again Byron, you've been a real help!

The rock I have isn't excessively large compared to anything I've seen in other peoples tanks so it should be fine then. The seals on the bottom are much larger than the manufacturer tank seals were so I'm pretty confident that they'll hold anything I can place in there!

As soon as the substrate arrives I'm going to build the tank up and start ammonia cycling. I've got an API Freshwater liquid test kit, the fish store guy said it was one of the better test kits for accuracy. He has offered to throw in some filter media from their sump filters on the day I start cycling to help expedite the process. I've no idea how much it speeds things up by, but I'm expecting to wait a month or two before the tank is ready for fish from what I've read.

Thanks

 

[Byron]

Excellent, thank you again Byron, you've been a real help!

The rock I have isn't excessively large compared to anything I've seen in other peoples tanks so it should be fine then. The seals on the bottom are much larger than the manufacturer tank seals were so I'm pretty confident that they'll hold anything I can place in there!

As soon as the substrate arrives I'm going to build the tank up and start ammonia cycling. I've got an API Freshwater liquid test kit, the fish store guy said it was one of the better test kits for accuracy. He has offered to throw in some filter media from their sump filters on the day I start cycling to help expedite the process. I've no idea how much it speeds things up by, but I'm expecting to wait a month or two before the tank is ready for fish from what I've read.

Thanks

I do not recommend using filter media or substrate from stores. We quarantine fish to avoid introducing disease, so the same caution applies to anything from their tanks with fish. You could easily introduce pathogens that will be no end of trouble.

Bacterial supplements can seed filters. The best method is to use live plants, fast growers like floating plants.

Back to the rock, another thing is not to have them stacked so they could topple. Rocks sitting on the tank floor, or smaller ones on the sand, are fine. But any rock that is sitting on top of another rock or two could be shifted. With smaller chunks of river rock this is not likely a problem, but larger pieces that suddenly collapse could be.

 

[NewFishPerson]

I do not recommend using filter media or substrate from stores. We quarantine fish to avoid introducing disease, so the same caution applies to anything from their tanks with fish. You could easily introduce pathogens that will be no end of trouble.

Bacterial supplements can seed filters. The best method is to use live plants, fast growers like floating plants.

Back to the rock, another thing is not to have them stacked so they could topple. Rocks sitting on the tank floor, or smaller ones on the sand, are fine. But any rock that is sitting on top of another rock or two could be shifted. With smaller chunks of river rock this is not likely a problem, but larger pieces that suddenly collapse could be.

No worries, I was going to use a single piece of the larger rock without stacking it and scatter the pebbles around the rock on and on sand. I'll politely decline the offer of fish shop filter media then, I hadn't even thought about pathogens so good call on that one. Could I use filter media out of a healthy, established Koi pond (my fathers pond) or is this one of those cases where it's best to purchase one of the bottled bacteria products? As for floating plants, I already have water lettuce, they had them on offer in the fish shop for 25p so I bought a couple. I wanted to get hold of Amazonian frogbit also to provide shading for the fish when I get them so I'll order some now and put it in the tank as soon as I start.

Thanks.