New Aquarium Owner - Advice Appreciated

[Ryan_W]

Hi all,

This is my first post on here so be gentle...

I've just finished maturing my 64 litre tank over the past 8 days, and yesterday I added my first finned additions.

1 x Leopard Danio
1 x Tiger Danio
1 x Panda Cory
2 x Platy (M+F)

Amonia levels are 0 at the moment, but I'm testing the water everyday to make sure all's well.

It's got lots of natural plants in it, a rock and I've got some bogwood that is still soaking to remove all the tannis from it. This will go into my next tank... Read on >>>



Now this morning I noticed that my tank has a small leak at the back near the top, so I'm taking it back to the store I purchased it from to get my money back.

In the meantime, I've just bought (should be here tomorrow) a 110 litre tank Juwel Rekord 800 to mature before I take my other tank back.

Now the questions start...

Is it going to be a simple swap?
Will the new tank need to mature if I use everything out the old tank?
Can I use the water out the leaking tank in the new tank?
Anything I need to know about going from a small tank to one double its size?
Will I be able to add more fish to the tank straight away?
Anything else recommended to put in the new big tank?

I apologise for my magnitude of questions, I'm trying to read up and learn as much as possible, promise!!!

Thanks all,

Ryan

 

[Assaye]

Yes, it will be a straight swap. The larger tank will need a larger filter and heated but all the plants, decor, gravel and water can be moved over. You just need to add more gravel, etc to fill in the spaces. Run both filters (old and new) in the new tank. If the old filter is mature (which I doubt, see below) then it'll slowly seed the new filter. I always prefer to run multiple filters so I wouldn't worry about swapping the media about from filter to filter.

However, you say you have matured your tank after 8 days. This isn't possible. The phrase "matured" means the tank is properly bedded in and several months old with loads of bacteria and micro-scopic life. You can't achieve this after 8 days. I suspect you mean you "cycled" your tank, which means for the filter biologically active and ready for fish although I am a little worried about this claim. A cycle very, very rarely takes only a week and in most cases takes 4-6 weeks. A cycle is not as simple as leaving the water to settle or adding some supplements - to cycle a tank without fish you need an ammonia source (such as a bottle of ammonia/water solution) and to be testing the water regularly for the inevitable spikes and dips in ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. It can be sped up by adding mature media but you don't not mention that you have done this.

What method did you use, what were you advised to do and why do you think your tank is mature? You might have simply not included the relevant info but it sounds like you've been mislead by the shop you got your fish from and given the odd selection of fish you have ended up with, I'd agree with this.

Test your water daily for ammonia and nitrite and read the information about cycling in the Resource Centre in the New Freshwater Tank section. That should make everything clear and determine whether you have actually managed to cycle your tank.

As for your stock - do not add new fish to the larger tank. Also don't bother to "mature" your new tank if the old one has a leak. Get everything moved over to the new tank and start testing the water daily. You currently have 2 different danios, 2 guppies )M+F) and a cory. This is very odd as corys and danios need to be kept in groups - you would need 4-6 panda corys, 6 leopard danios and 6 'tiger' (zebra?) danios to give them the correct and natural social groups. These fish will not thrive long term as singles and the shop honestly shouldn't have let you walk out without at least trying to get you to just take one larger group of one species instead of loads of individual fish. The guppies are also a problem as when 1:1, male guppies will pester female guppies to breed and can actually make them stressed and ill. Breeding fish is always risky, esp as a newbie, because you end up with more fish than you have space for and they won't get the right care unless you take the breeding seriously and do some research. A better combo for guppies would be to take the female back and get 2-4 more males. However, do not add any new stock until you know whether your filter is actually cycled!

Any ammonia or nitrite readings other than ZERO (even small ones) mean the tank is not yet safe for fish. Read that section on cycling in the Resorce Centre in the New Tank sub-forum.

 

[Gilli]

You dont have a mature tank. It takes 6-8 weeks for the beneficial bacteria to grow in the filter before they can make the water safe and non toxic for the fish so your tank is not cycled yet.

No need to use the water from the old tank that is of no benefit - the bacteria grow in the filter and there wont be any in your gravel yet....

Swop your tanks over and read up on a fish in cycle in this thread

cycling a fish tank

you are doing it the hard way with fish in as you are going to have to do large water changes every single day sometimes twice a day for 6-8 weeks. See if the fish shop will take the fish back and then you can do a fishless cycle (info in same thread above) - much less work and kinder for the fish.

 

[Ryan_W]

Just off into work (the joys of late shifts!), and will reply in full when I'm there...

Thanks for all the info so far though, I'll get reading.

Ryan

 

[Ryan_W]

Right, after lots of reading, I believe I've been told a few porkies by my LFS!

I now know that I've cycled(ish) my tank and not matured it... I now understand the ammonia, No2 and NO3 levels (I think) and realise that I've put my little family of fish in harms way, not good.

I'm going to be doing 25% water changes daily adding Tapsafe to make sure the water is dechlorinated.

Hopefully within the next couple of weeks, things should start to perk up. I've got quite a few plants in my little tank, am I correct in thinking these will help with my maturing?

I'll be buying one of the expensive 'do all' water test kits tomorrow too... I'll have my fingers crossed that my fish pull through. Next additions in a months time or so, will be, more Danios (can you mix them?) and more Corys to keep 'Casper' company...

In my new 110 litre tank, I'm going to organise it a bit better, segregated parts, gravel either side with some sand down the middle. I'm going to get some ferns to attach to my bog wood, and I'm going to add a few more rocks etc...



Please keep informing me of where I'm going wrong as I don't want to put any fish in harms way, although I'm worried it may already be too late for that

Cheers all,

Ryan

 

[Gilli]

Your tank is not cycled - cycled and mature mean the same thing. Your tank is not mature or cycled until it is processing all the nitrites and ammonia daily with both readings at 0 at all times. Do not under any circumstances buy any more fish until your tank is fully cycled (6-8 weeks time). Plants will not really do much to mature your tank but what they will do is keep the nitrates down when your tank is cycled .

Test your water twice daily every day, and if you get any nitrite or ammonia readings do an immediate water change - the higher the readings the bigger the water change.

Danios can be mixed and should be kept in groups of 6 or more for each individual species- same with the corys.

 

[rhiannonk]

Well it sounds like you are at least armed with some knowledge now that should help you keep your fish alive. Generally, the most accurate test kits are the ones that use liquid drop reagents. A lot of people use and swear by the API Master Test Kit, which has tests for PH, ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates. Be sure though to follow all of the instructions carefully (eg: waiting the prescribed amount of time after mixing your sample before checking the colour/reading). The important thing is to keep your ammonia and nitrite levels as close to 0 ppm as possible. If you see their levels climbing, do a large water change (don't be afraid to do one 50% or more if necessary), as the stress of water changing is less than that of toxic ammonia and nitrite levels. Just be sure to roughly temperature match the water and dechlorinate (as you mentioned you are already doing.) It is a good idea to feed your fish VERY sparingly while cycling, as this will reduce the overall amount of ammonia buildup. Once you are cycled (you will see several days of readings with 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, and climbing nitrate levels), I would suggest stocking some more panda cories (groups of 3 - 6 work well) and some more danios, as these fish do well in groups Just be sure not to overstock.

Also, if you are going to be setting up a new tank, you can put some of the filter media from this tank (once it is cycled) into the new one, and it should speed up the process.

 

[Ryan_W]

Thanks for the info Gilli.

I'll hold off for a couple of months before adding any other fish.

I'll be taking and recording my test results at 12:00 and 0:00, is this okay? I assume that 10% changes are fine if the levels are fairly low. I read that large water changes are not always beneficial since you get rid of too much good bacteria and it doesn't have a chance to spread?

I feel like such an idiot going into this without having a 'proper' read-up before hand. I guess we all live and learn?!

I'll keep my fish in my old tank for a long as possible before swapping them over into the new tank.

I'm going to have a go at repairing the leaking seal and keeping the tank to try and do a fish cycle with it, whilst maturing the new tank over 6-8 weeks, making sure everything is perfect for when I do the big change...

Nothing wrong with having more than one aquarium!

 

[Ryan_W]

So I've just ordered the API Master Test Kit and some Seachem Stability (500ml) to keep an eye on my stats and hopefully help promote bacteria growth...

So am I correct in VERY simple terms, this is the cycle:

Fish waste >>> Ammonia >>> Bacteria breakdown the Ammonia into NO2 >>> Bacteria breakdown the NO2 into NO3 >>> Plants consume NO3 to grow >>> The cycle continues?!

I'm sorry for pulling teeth here but I'm just trying to work this all out now... Don't want my fish to die!!!

 

[waterdrop]

Yes you're getting closer. I'll embellish a little:

1) When fish respire (move water through their gills) they give off a lot of waste ammonia (unlike us humans who store it up first to extract the water) which is a main contributor of ammonia to the tank. Fish waste, excess fish food and plant debris then all add to the ammonia level because water-born bacteria break them down into it (these are different bacteria than we're trying to grow in the filter.)

2) Ammonia (NH3) is processed by the A-Bacs (ammonia oxidizing bacteria (actual name Nitrosomonas spp.)) to create Nitrite (NO2).

3) Nitrite (NO2) is processed by the N-Bacs (nitrite oxidizing bacteria (actual name Nitrospira spp.)) to create Nitrate (NO3).

4) Nitrate (NO3) is not nearly as deadly as either of the above and can be removed from the aquarium by good weekly gravel-clean-water-changes (which is a core habit of good maintenance.)

5) If you are a good plant keeper, have a ton of plants and perhaps even some expensive equipment to feed CO2 to the plants then yes, your plants may eat some of your ammonia and nitrate (some species even eat a little nitrite!) but its not a good thing for a beginner to count on.

Your main goal right now is good Fish-In cycling technique and execution. Your test kit will help you tailor your water changes.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Ryan_W]

I've just ordered some Seachem Prime and Seachem Stability along with the API Master Test Kit...

Should be here tomorrow so I can get on top of things.

I did a 33% water change last night and put in some Tapsafe. Should have helped lower the NH3 levels (I hope).

Will do another 33% change tonight. I'd rather be safe than sorry before my test kit arrives. I'll be keeping a log once it's here, I'm now starting to appreciate the complexity behind all this biochemistry!

 

[Ryan_W]

Just added 2ml of Interpet Filter Start to try and help things along before my Seachem products arrive.

My Danios are full of life, the Cory is just chillin', but my Guppies don't look too healthy They're just sitting on the bottom looking sorry for themselves.

NH3 levels are reading 0 still, I'm only using the API strip test kit though,,,,,,,,

 

[waterdrop]

In general, we've found that the bottled-bacteria products just add to the NH3 and NO3 levels that you are attempting to remove via water changes during the fish-in cycling weeks. There will already be plenty of NH3 coming from your fish to feed the live bacteria that are already omnipresent in tap water systems. When there are fish, there is plenty of ammonia for the bacteria, even if the ammonia test reads zero ppm.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Ryan_W]

Thanks once again WD... Helpful as always

 

[Gilli]

You are doing great! - its nice to see someone who really cares and is eager to learn how to do things right by the fish! Keep your feeding to a bare minimum while your tank is cycling. You dont need to use any chemicals or additives - just your water decholrinator.