New 47g Tropical Tank Help Cycling

[waterdrop]

ok, thanks for that MW! good write-up ~~wd~~

 

[lana]

yeah, discus keepers often do it, i've never done it myself so can't recommend specific products but I suspect rabbut will be able to step in here.

you basically get either a powder or a liquid which has all the right buffers and minerals and you have a direction which is something like for every 5 litres of water add 2 ml of product, so you mix it up before the change, then take water out and replace it with the re-mineralized water.

Just to explain in case you're not aware of this lana, RO water is reverse osmosis water, this is water that has been filtered through a reverse osmosis filter. Marine keepers and others keeping sensitive fish such as discus use it, likewise people with very poor water quality from their tap can use it. You can either get an RO unit yourself and this plugs into the tap and will produce RO for you at home, or you can take a water container to a fish shop and buy the water from there. I would recommend for you to just buy it from the shop as you would only need it short term.

What the RO filter does is basically takes everything out of the water leaving you with pure H2O. Now it's not technically pure but it's as close as is reasonably possible in the home environment. It's measured via TDS (Total Dissolved Solids) in the water, if you were to test your tap water you would find a tds of 300 or there abouts, once it's been through the filter it's got a TDS of around 5-20.

It's not actually a good idea to use pure RO on your fish tank, basically fish absorb minerals through the water, if you give them water with no minerals in it won't do any harm short term, but their health will deteriorate long term without the right mineral balance. So you get these products which add all the stuff you need to the water and basically make it as near to perfect for the fish as you can get. They are generally aimed at fish like discus so will give those water params which may not be what you are aiming for, however they will give significantly less risk than 1ppm of ammonia would so as a short term measure I would certainly give it some consideration.

yes i have heard of it and looked into getting one for the kh but was told not to worry about that high kh levels, so i will revisit this option


but levels holding at 0 right now
i will retest tap water again

i was reading up on it and it could be that the prime will take care of it this is what i found

The ammonia reading you are getting from the tap is probably from the chloramine used to treat the water by the city. Chloramine is a compound chemical made by bonding chlorine and ammonia.

Treat the tap water with dechlorinator, stir it well, then test it. See if the level changes.

Even if there is ammonia in the tap water, the tank will cycle. When fully cycled, the bacteria in the tank will be able to break down the ammonia added in the tap water usually within 24 hours. You may see a bacteria bloom during that time after each water change. But the bloom is harmless and will clear by itself within a few hours.

so i am testing this today i will take a litre of water out tested before and and after the use of water cond , and let you all know

 

[rabbut]

Yes, the ammonia in the tap water could be from the nutralisation of chloramine, and is an oversight on my part....

I don't us RO for my discus, and in the Leeds area, I don't recomend it to others either, as I find it tends to lead to more issues than it avoids.... I have used it for a few breeding projects though.... The issues with using RO is that you need a good understanding of water chemistory and how parameters interlink to use it safely. You also need good test kits for GH, KH and pH. This is the problem... People generaly don't want to spend time reading about and digesting water chemistory information before trying to change their water. They change the water first, loose their fish and then reserch water chemistory as a possible caurse for their losses...

Kent RO does a good mineral retopic, but you need to be careful with it's use (as with any other minearl retopic). As with any product, it is hard to dose accurately every time, so every time you mix it you need to test GH, KH and pH before adding it to the tank. They need to match those of the first time you ever mixed it, and if they don't, you need to do some adjusting.... If you don't check these, the pH can swing at waterchange time leading to issues. Also, a low KH will lead to a pH crash, killing the tank off....

If your levels stay zero now, then avoid the RO option, but if they are up, post back and I'll run you through water chemistory in as easier way as I possibly can. Playing with RO for freshwater is a more advanced area of the hobby and thus needs a good background knowlage before you try it.

All the best
Rabbut

 

[Miss Wiggle]

thanks for stepping in rabbut, as I'm sure we've told you before our tap water is near on perfect anyway so we've no need to ever try RO for FW set up's, and as I said in the first place I wouldn't generally recommend RO to people in this situation but with 1ppm of ammonia out of the tap I think something drastic may be needed.

However as you said with levels seemingly holding steady now it may not be needed, fingers crossed!!

The reading you have done is correct that neutralising chloramines can produce a small amount of ammonia, however it shouldn't be producing 1ppm. I'd expect 0.25ppm tops. As you said test some water straight from the tap, then dechlorinate it and test again and let us know the difference.

 

[lana]

thanks for stepping in rabbut, as I'm sure we've told you before our tap water is near on perfect anyway so we've no need to ever try RO for FW set up's, and as I said in the first place I wouldn't generally recommend RO to people in this situation but with 1ppm of ammonia out of the tap I think something drastic may be needed.

However as you said with levels seemingly holding steady now it may not be needed, fingers crossed!!

The reading you have done is correct that neutralising chloramines can produce a small amount of ammonia, however it shouldn't be producing 1ppm. I'd expect 0.25ppm tops. As you said test some water straight from the tap, then dechlorinate it and test again and let us know the difference.

here are the result , i think they speak for themself

1.

2.

as you can see the one on the left is before adding prime to 1 litre of tap water, the one on the right is about 10 mins later



edit to say : looks more like 0.25 to 0.50 from tap is my guess can you tell from pic if i am right

 

[Miss Wiggle]

so the one on the left is pure tap water, one on the right is dechlorinated using prime?

well that just shows us that prime really is a great product! if it does that then no need to get involved in RO and all that rubbish, just stick with prime

 

[lana]

so the one on the left is pure tap water, one on the right is dechlorinated using prime?

well that just shows us that prime really is a great product! if it does that then no need to get involved in RO and all that rubbish, just stick with prime

sounds good to me ....lol

i was reading up on what you were talking about and man that's alot of work......., but i am happy with theses results, i plan on sticking to prime as my water cond.......... all looks well in tank perfectly clear all fish swimming happy, eating well changed from 2 times a day to once at 5 pm seemed like they were not eating it all second feeding so i cut it

temp holding well , ph holding at 7.2 , everything else at 0 , ammonia at between 0 and 0.25 i will check that again in the morning and if need be a water change before work,

now to just wait for the nirtite to kick in that i am half way there

 

[Miss Wiggle]

it is, that's why i don't make a habit of suggesting it! thankfully sounds like you don't need it

just look at it this way, every bit of knowledge that you gain during this process will make you a better fishkeeper in the long run, so store it up in your knowledge bank to be called upon on a later date!!!

 

[lana]

it is, that's why i don't make a habit of suggesting it! thankfully sounds like you don't need it

just look at it this way, every bit of knowledge that you gain during this process will make you a better fishkeeper in the long run, so store it up in your knowledge bank to be called upon on a later date!!!

thanks so much for the help ......

i am thinking i have a nitrate reading it is not yellow but not fully orange, maybe just maybe next day or so will tell forsure

 

[lana]

what color does this look

 

[Corleone]

It looks yellow. Is that the nitrate tube? I'd say it's pretty much 0. Definitely not 10 yet, though it might not be exactly 0.

It's worth noting the nitrate test is prone to giving lower readings than is there - I'm assuming you do make sure to follow all the annoying steps like shaking the bottles and so forth?

 

[Miss Wiggle]

don't stress yourself too much over nitrate, nitrate test kits are unreliable at best and should be taken as an indicative reading rather than an exact measure, all that reading tells me is 'low' which is what it should be, so for now that's fine.

it's only if you get bright red that you need to be worried really.

remember also nitrate is the least toxic, and therefore least important of all the levels. really focus on the ammonia and nitrite and as long as you're not getting a bright red for the nitrate test then it's fine.

 

[lana]

don't stress yourself too much over nitrate, nitrate test kits are unreliable at best and should be taken as an indicative reading rather than an exact measure, all that reading tells me is 'low' which is what it should be, so for now that's fine.

it's only if you get bright red that you need to be worried really.

remember also nitrate is the least toxic, and therefore least important of all the levels. really focus on the ammonia and nitrite and as long as you're not getting a bright red for the nitrate test then it's fine.

works for me ..... can't wait til this tank is cycled so wish i found this site before i added fish tho ....oh well to late now just make the best of it try to kepp the fishes some what happy for now

 

[waterdrop]

Glad to hear the news. This whole last exchange sounds good. I have chloramines in my water too and have done the before/after tests. The ammonia that comes out of chloramination should only be a trace, definately not 1ppm. I use Prime too as my conditioner and have found it to be very good. ..breathing a sigh of relief that you haven't had to go off fooling with RO water.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[lana]

woohoooo second stage started