Neons are dying off

[sharkweek178]

I did not see a lot of darting or restless swimming, I saw slow down, seems like swim in circles maybe, it's been a couple of years. I tore the tanks down and bleached everything in May 2020, I'd never seen it before, I put the 2 remaining diamond tetras in a clean 10 gallon and experimented with meds and within about 4 weeks they had died too, they just kind of failed, tried to hide from light it seems like. I tried meds most people couldn't get. My pharmaceutical wholesale guy told me it was incurable but I had so many affected fish I just wasn't quitting until I had to. guppies and bristlenose are immune to it.

I did see a couple swim sort of in a twisting motion in place before they died. I went to take one out of the tank to euthanize when I saw this but it was gone by the time I got back to the tank.

 

[sharkweek178]

I caught the one who was struggling and euthanized it with clove oil. It seemed like it wasn't going to make it so I wanted to put it out of its misery and avoid it dying and ending up somewhere in the tank where I couldn't see it. Then it would either decompose and increase the ammonia or I would have to tear apart the tank looking for it and stressing out the fish that were remaining.
There are 7 neons left and they look healthy for the moment.

 

[Byron]

A dying fish in a tank this heavily planted will absolutely not increase the ammonia to any level that can be read nor will it be detrimental. So don't unnecessarily worry over this.

As for additional water changes, when was the last one, and how much?

 

[sharkweek178]

A dying fish in a tank this heavily planted will absolutely not increase the ammonia to any level that can be read nor will it be detrimental. So don't unnecessarily worry over this.

As for additional water changes, when was the last one, and how much?

Just this past Saturday and it was 50%.

 

[Byron]

Just this past Saturday and it was 50%.

This is difficult to answer for me. Many if not most of us would advise that a major water change is the first thing to do when there is a problem affecting fish. I wholeheartedly agree with this. At the same time, these neon deaths do not appear to be anything other than the fish themselves. The ammonia I have explained, and I would not expect this at all to be the issue.

 

[Byron]

In my earlier response in which I mentioned Prime I should have said more, because this is at the heart of some of your issues. The ammonia is due to the chloramine as I explained. Prime is going to hinder more than help this. It contains a chemical (Seachem would not say what, just it is there) which "detoxifies" the heavy metals and ammonia temporarily (up to 36 hours they say) but it also prevents the plants from utilizing these for this period. A conditioner like the API does not contain this chemical, and therefore when it breaks the chloramine bond the plants are able to use the ammonia/ammonium, along with any nutrients in added fertilizers. This is also the reason why Seachem say to not dose plant supplements until 48 hours post-water change, because the chemical in Prime will also detoxify the heavy metal nutrients (iron, copper, zinc, manganese). Get yourself a bottle of the API Tap Water Conditioner.

 

[Alice B]

OK, this clears some things up. First, on the ammonia...this is most likely due to the chloramine. And since this tank is thick with plants and some fast growing among them, don't worry over the minimal ammonia. The plants will easily handle this. Chloramine is a chlorine/ammonia bonded substance, and the conditioner breaks the bond but the ammonia remains, it is not removed by conditioners. This is the job of the plants and nitrifying bacteria, and they should bee able to handle this. Do an ammonia test a day after the water change, and a day after that, and see if it registers. i suspect it won't. Problem solved.

Second issue, the neon deaths...I don't know. This fish is very frequently in rough shape these days. Provided the cories remain apparently unaffected, I would just monitor things and see where it goes. It might be advisable to get a different fish if the neons do not do well.

On the Prime, I would not myself use this conditioner. It has chemicals in it that do things that really are best left alone. I won't get into all that, and not everyone will agree, but facts are facts. The API Tap Water Conditioner is safer and all you need here. I am not saying the Prime is the issue behind the neon deaths, but I will absolutely say it may be a debilitating influence. Characins are especially sensitive to all chemicals. Pure water with as few "additives" is better.

if you lose all the neons and you get a different fish I suggest fancy guppies for at least 2 months, add no tetras of any kind, no loaches, no gouramis. I can't remember all the fish I lost, I think some pearl danios too. The trouble with neon tetra disease is that it does not stop with the tetras, the gravel and filters and everything seem to become infected. An aquarium service that is still in operation is on one of my discussion groups, he suggested 6 to 8 weeks with no vulnerable species and regular water changes. I don't know if cories are immune but my clown pleco, guppies and albino bristlenose were unaffected.

 

[sharkweek178]

if you lose all the neons and you get a different fish I suggest fancy guppies for at least 2 months, add no tetras of any kind, no loaches, no gouramis. I can't remember all the fish I lost, I think some pearl danios too. The trouble with neon tetra disease is that it does not stop with the tetras, the gravel and filters and everything seem to become infected. An aquarium service that is still in operation is on one of my discussion groups, he suggested 6 to 8 weeks with no vulnerable species and regular water changes. I don't know if cories are immune but my clown pleco, guppies and albino bristlenose were unaffected.

My water isn't hard enough for guppies. My options are limited for other species. My pH is too high for most rasbora. I want to add my honey gourami to the tank and danios are a little too active to be compatible.

 

[sharkweek178]

This is difficult to answer for me. Many if not most of us would advise that a major water change is the first thing to do when there is a problem affecting fish. I wholeheartedly agree with this. At the same time, these neon deaths do not appear to be anything other than the fish themselves. The ammonia I have explained, and I would not expect this at all to be the issue.

My next step is to keep watching the tank. If the remaining neons survive, then I might return them or I might replenish their school. If they don't then I'm open to another species. Maybe green neons. But I might have to wait for whatever is killing these ones to be cleared out first.

 

[Alice B]

My water isn't hard enough for guppies. My options are limited for other species. My pH is too high for most rasbora. I want to add my honey gourami to the tank and danios are a little too active to be compatible.

my moonlight gourami that I'd had about 4 years gradually bloated and died a slow death. My GH is 6. I am told that is too low for guppies, but I bought guppies in 2004 and their descendants are still here. I got some fresh blood for color in 2021, and I bought 2 fancy males last year

 

[Alice B]

or simply leave the fish that are in there, in there. If the cories are fine, they can keep the biological filter going. And the cories are likely to be fine.

 

[Alice B]

I got brave and bought 5 red eye tetras. I had had 3 older ones from another fishkeeper in my 38 hex, I did lose 2 in there but they were large and old. Moved the 3rd to a 10 gallon with the 5 red eyes I had in quarantine, and later to the 55 gallon. For some mysterious reason that wasn't ammonia or chlorine or any normal thing, I lost 3 within the first couple months of this year, old one first, moved the other 3 to my false corii's 10 after I moved them out to a larger tank. I wish I had just euthanized those 3 tetras. I basically did a full cleanup on the 10 after they died, 100% water change, and re-cycled the tank with a fat female guppy. Lost 2 cories in the course of moving them around, they are now all happy in their 10 laying and eating eggs apparently, since I see at least one new baby fish. I don't think I could be given a tetra right now. My 55 has 6 guppies, 1 BN and 1 clown pleco in it. I didn't bleach it, I'm still thinking about bleaching it, I have room to move those fish to other tanks. Or I can go the 6 or 8 weeks to let tetra mystery disease die out. I haven't decided. We all choose our own risks, and our own heartaches. You'll have to choose yours

 

[outofwater]

Had the same thing happen to me twice when I was trying to build up my little neon herd. In the end I opted to wait until warm weather because I found out that the fish arriving in these cold months are extra weakened. Neons are already a dicey bet due to poor breeding practices. Add the stress of the trip and handling, and you've got a recipe for disaster which you'll bash yourself for until you realize the poor fish had a slim chance to start with.

Try a different store, and also scope the place, find out when they get new deliveries, it's usually once or twice a week for most stores, be it mom n pop or chains, and check how the fish look upon arrival. Once o started doing that I saw many doing the "circle drain" swim, or the "separated from the herd" thing right off the bat. Unfortunately those are tell tale signs that those fish are not in their best shape and the trip to your home is probably their last hour on this world.

 

[seangee]

I once had similar with glowlights. It seemd contained to the species but eventually started affecting other species which were more resistant. Eventually I made the tough decision to euthenase all the glowlights and any other fish that was affected. No further issues.

Here's a sneaky tip I have been known to use. Visit the fish shop and if anyone asks say you are just browsing. If you decide (for example) you want 12 neons go home and call to ask if they have 12 neons in stock. Ask to reserve them because you are about to go on holiday but can collect in a couple of weeks. The manager at my LFS once told me their mortality rate for new shipments is well over 50%. The good shops will keep them for a couple of weeks before selling, but not all do this. This way you ensure that you are not buying brand new stock and have a better chance at a higher survival rate.

 

[sharkweek178]

I have two left now. I'm not sure how to proceed. I called the store and they're willing to offer me credit. I don't like having an insufficient number of a schooling fish. But I don't want to just throw a bunch more in there to get sick.