Need opinion about bacterial treatment pls!

[angelcraze]

I have a 40g QT tank with 7 young angelfish. I started with 9 dime sized angels in November (I think?) and lost two to what I suspect is aeromonas bacteria. I've been battling this for the last 2 months or so trying to figure out the problem. I only noticed a problem when one of them suddenly wasn't eating and passed away. I noticed it had a pinhole in the middle of its dorsal fin close to the body which I just thought was weird. Then I started seeing other pits and holes! Atm, I have one angelfish with a hole in its side and one with a pit on its head This angel also has a white pit between her eyes.

I know it looks really bad They also have clear stringy poop.

Anyway, i'm pretty sure it's bacteria and I've been treating with methylene blue and salt (sodium chloride) for the last 5 days. I don't feel comfortable with doing dips, so I removed the bamboo plants and filter media and dosed the whole tank with 1 tablespoon sodium chloride per 5 gallons and 1ml mblue per 10 gallons. I also added 1/4 teaspoon of Seachem Equilibrium to ensure a good calcium level.

At first I thought it was Hex/HITH and was feeding Epsom Salts (sodium magnesium) in a food soak. But I didn't see improvement.

I have also added Boyd Vitachem to the water. I'm changing water and redosing every 2 days. Also i'm open to trying a heavier dose in a dip for that one angel with the hole, and maybe the other with the head pit, but I've never done one before and am looking for advice pls.

Any suggestions?
I saw someone here suggested keeping the salt for 2 weeks, but no more, then to slowly flush it out, but what else can I do? I'm not really seeing the hole seal up.
I don't have access to antibiotics unfortunately.

That pic was from 5 days ago, I can get a new pic of requested. Thanks!

This pic is just for a happier pic, here she is with her boyfriend

 

[PheonixKingZ]

I see a couple of really big problems.

1( Your tank doesn't have sand.

2( Your tank doesn't have a light.

3( Your tanks water level is very low.

4( And those plants don't look like they belong there.

When was the last time you did a water change? What are your water parameters?

 

[angelcraze]

Thank you for your response.

1) This is a bare-bottom quarentine tank.
2) I do have a light, the water is blue because of the mblue. I removed the lucky bamboo plants and giant duckweed temporarily while I use salt and mblue.
3) Water level is low bc I don't have a lot of mblue left and it saves changing out 10 extra gallons every 2 days. (Also I can't restock mblue easily!) I only have so much salt too. My province is in total QT (covid). I have removed media from my internal filter temporarily. My 12 watt internal filter lies horizontally at the back and is pointed upward so it doesn't matter how much I fill the tank as long as the fish have enough depth.
4) They are silk spider plants just there for cover in the QT tank. I know they don't look like they belong haha!

I change 50% water every 2 days

PH 7.4
KH 4
GH 4 (KH and GH increased by 2 degrees with Equilibrium)

The tank is currently uncycled. I have removed filter media because the mblue destroys the cycle anyway.

I will be boiling all media and reseeding bio with media from another established tank once treatment with mblue is complete. It's how I started the cycle in the first place.

 

[PheonixKingZ]

My bad, I didn't know this was a QT tank. What are you currently feeding them?

 

[angelcraze]

No worries I am feeding NorthFin cichlid pellets, NLS pellets (different types) and Omega One. I've started soaking their food in Vitamins (Vitachem). I tried Epsom salts in a soak, but it didn't seem to help

I can try feeding frozen bloodworms. I'm very allergic to brine shrimp

 

[PheonixKingZ]

No worries I am feeding NorthFin cichlid pellets, NLS pellets (different types) and Omega One. I've started soaking their food in Vitamins (Vitachem). I tried Epsom salts in a soak, but it didn't seem to help

I can try feeding frozen bloodworms. I'm very allergic to brine shrimp

I see. When was the last time you did a water change?

 

[angelcraze]

I see. When was the last time you did a water change?

Apologies I had to get some groceries.
Friday evening was the last change. I'm doing one tonight again. I've had them in 1 tblsp per 5 gallons for 4 days now (added gradually). I haven't noticed any issues in behavior since adding the salt and so far they are all acting ok.

The first angel that I lost was a silver, it was the one who stopped eating and died the next day. I noticed a pinhole in the dorsal fin the day before. The other angel to perish was a blushing platinum. It got these weird whitish growths all along the perimeter of its body like it was uneven or something (fish is also white). It died within a few days. Then I saw the holes and decided to try salt and mblue.

 

[angelcraze]

I see. When was the last time you did a water change?

I did another 30% WC last night.
Filled tank to 30 gallons, changed out 10 and redosed salt and mblue

 

[PheonixKingZ]

Apologies I had to get some groceries.
Friday evening was the last change. I'm doing one tonight again. I've had them in 1 tblsp per 5 gallons for 4 days now (added gradually). I haven't noticed any issues in behavior since adding the salt and so far they are all acting ok.

The first angel that I lost was a silver, it was the one who stopped eating and died the next day. I noticed a pinhole in the dorsal fin the day before. The other angel to perish was a blushing platinum. It got these weird whitish growths all along the perimeter of its body like it was uneven or something (fish is also white). It died within a few days. Then I saw the holes and decided to try salt and mblue.

The holes in the fins are fin rot. Usually caused by poor water quality. The white spots all over the body, is ick. A very common and treatable disease. (Also caused by poor water quality)

@Deanasue can help you resolve this. She is more knowledgeable than me, when it comes to diseases. Good luck.

 

[FishGuest5123]

I would suspect hexamita and HITH since cichlids are prone to it. You really need an antibiotic. Can you see a vet? Do daily 75% water changes for 2 weeks and continue with salt and methylene blue. You can net the fish and swab the spot with MB. You can do this a couple of times a day. @Colin_T, what do you think? I know little about angelfish.

 

[angelcraze]

I suspected HITH as well, so I soaked food in an epsom salt solution for 5 days, no improvement. I lost the blushing platinum since the feeding. I have Metro plus, but it's probably expired. Btw, can HITH/Hex cause holes in the abdomen? When I saw the hole there, I suspected aeromonas bacteria or both.

Only vet that will see fish is 3 hours away and due to covid they are only accepting emergency calls and are on reduced staff. I cannot locate any antibiotics.

I found maracyn 2 available (almost gone), it would be effective against aeromonas, but it's not recommended for fish with open wounds or septicaemia due to some action with the blood. I have one angel with a wound, the other is a pit. Luckily all the others (including the ones with the sores) are acting ok and eating and the other 5 are fine so far. My preference would be neomycin in the feed, but I can't find any at all

I will start changing out more water then. Hopefully i'll have enough salt and mblue. I will also swab the mblue on the wounds, I've done it before so i'm comfortable.

Thanks for your attention, it means a lot to me.

Extra info: I thought the bacteria came with the silver angels. Then a few days later, I bought two blushing platinum angels to QT with the silvers. I lost a silver angel after a month (I think). Then I saw the spot on the head and a small spot between the eyes on another. So I thought HITH. Then the fish turned and I saw the hole in the abdomen!

So I started feeding epsom salts and lost the platium (from another store) really quickly. It had nodules or white growth things all along the perimeter of the body. Wish I got a pic. It just looked like the body was uneven bc the fish was white too.

Since I've done the mblue and salt, no new problems, but the wounds are not healing as fast as I thought they would. Maybe it takes longer, idk?

The holes in the fins are fin rot. Usually caused by poor water quality. The white spots all over the body, is ick. A very common and treatable disease. (Also caused by poor water quality)

@Deanasue can help you resolve this. She is more knowledgeable than me, when it comes to diseases. Good luck.

Thanks again. It's not white spots all over, so not ich, but a pit spot between the eyes on the one with a hole in the abdomen and a pit on the head of another.

Here's an example of the pit

It's a blue silver angel

The other one with the hole has a smaller pit between the eyes. But I know it's not ich.

Yeah, finrot is an aeromonas thing too. It was the only fin issue I saw, but I feel they have the aeromonas issue as well. Whether it's HITH and aeromonas infection, idk.

But I can't figure out how it happened in that tank. There's no place for that bacteria to colonize. Like you say, it's usually a bad quality water thing, but that tank has been perfectly taken care of and I've never seen this in the 15 years I've kept fish. I have 8 other tanks btw. Luckily this is a QT tank and I keep everything separate. Thanks for all your help

 

[PheonixKingZ]

Interesting on the pits. Maybe it was caused in a case of aggression? Are there any sharp decor pieces that it may have cut itself on?

 

[angelcraze]

Interesting on the pits. Maybe it was caused in a case of aggression? Are there any sharp decor pieces that it may have cut itself on?

Exactly, that's what I thought also, but it got a bit bigger before I added the mblue and salt. That pic was from March 8th

 

[PheonixKingZ]

It may have got bigger, because it got worse. It’s just like if you got a deep scratch like that. If you didn’t do anything about that and went swimming a lot, it would make it even worse! (Just a metaphor, but it makes sense, right?)

 

[angelcraze]

Oh my, so it could a few different issues....

Well if it's a scratch, it should heal with just
good water conditions, and now I have salt and mblue too. Hoping it's an injury that can heal bc I ordered the blue angels and would love to keep them alive. All of them, but especially the blues. I'm hoping I can save the silver with a hole too bc she's cute with her boyfriend