Need Co2 For Beginner - Dward Hairgrass And Dwarf Sagittaria Poor Grow

[Deleted member 107737]

Hi All,
 
Trying to find out about co2. Been hearing so much about it lately and as my dwarf plants are doing so poor thought it may be the right time,
 
Ive got a 40 gallon tank with medium lighting and currently adding nutrafin plant gro fert once a week.
 
1) which kit is best to buy for my tank size?
 
2) is it easy to set up?
 
3) are their any risks involved
 
 
Any information would be so helpful
 
Thanks,

Dave
 
 

 

[ramram]

What type of lighting do you have and how long is your photo period?
What is your tank flow like?
 
most plant issues are caused by excessive light and poor flow.
 
Correct lighting and photo period are the key to successful plant growth.
 
Adding co2 with massively improve plant health but it come at a cost.
Its quite expensive to set up, its an added risk to the fish health in the fact you can kill them if you inject to much co2 and you also need to improve water flow in the tank normally by adding a spray bar or power head.
 
the cheapest co2 set up is a co2 fire extinguisher and a regulator. do a search there's plenty of info on how to do it. Dont waste your money on aquarium set ups they are a massive rip off.
 
You can also use a yeast reactor to inject co2 but its a massive amount of work and you need to be 100% committed to make it reliable.
 
If you only have a small amount of plants you could probably get away with using liquid carbon, correcting your photo period and improving water flow.
 
I would also recommend you stop using nutrafin plant grow and consider using EI salts in stead. They are far better at ensuring your plants have the correct amount of nutrients and are far far cheaper.
look here for info on EI dosing
 
http/www.aquariumplantfood.co.uk/fertilisers/dry-chemicals/starter-kits/ei-starter-kit.html
 
If you want to go down the liquid carbon route then look into a chemical called glutaraldehyde.
Its the main chemical used in liquid carbons and can be bought in a 50% solution for a fraction of the price of commercial liquid carbons.
You have to dilute it your self with water and there are risks involved. Its a highly toxic chemical and great care has to be taken when mixing it so not recommended for all. You also have to be extreamly careful not to over dose as you can kill your fish.
 
I think if you start EI dosing, improve water flow and correct your photo period for the tank you will see improvments.
You also need to be doing 50% water changes every week.

 

[DrRob]

Good answer from Ramram.
 
Trying to keep it simple,
 
1) Pressurised is really better for a tank of that size, although you could go with liquid carbon but you'll use a lot. Gluteraldehyde, as mentioned above, is an option but not for the chemically shy (although I'd do it, but it's nasty stuff on the lungs). Personally, I'd go for the DIY route (or a kit route with a cheaper source like a fire extinguisher or a pub bottle). Don't go for anything with disposable cylinders on that size of tank, you'll spend a fortune on replacements (although you could probably get away with a welding bottle rig if space was an issue).
 
2) Depending on the kit you choose, yes. Gas systems can be put together in no time flat, the biggest issue with them is the diffusion method as you're messing with something in the tank, either filter pipes (which I'd recommend with an inline reactor or diffuser) or glassware in the tank, and that I can't help you with the complexity of without knowing the rest of your rig.
 
3) Done properly it's not that risky. You're adding chemicals, do it slowly and carefully, start small and build up. There are issues with having gas bottles lying around, but they're lying around in work places minding their own business day in day out with little worry, and there are issues if you play with gluteraldehyde (please do get a lot of advice before you mess with potent chemicals). For the fish, you can change the pH temporarily, but this shouldn't be a problem so long as there are even quite low levels of buffers in the tank and gas levels shouldn't be an issue if you keep the levels low and build up slowly.
 
As for ferts, I'm a huge fan of the dry salt method, but there's nothing wrong with what you're doing as such and you're picking on the right thing with the CO2.

 

[ramram]

^^^ I concur

 

[Deleted member 107737]

Hi Guys,
 
See im learning something new each and every day.
 
Ok ive got my lighting on from 8-12am and then 4-9pm = 9 hours total
 
I have a spray bar circulating water from back of the tank forward towards the front glass. if there are any dead leaves i can see them moving / circling the tank.
 
from what you have said, im going to consider the ei salts or liquid carbon route
 
Is this what you mean by liquid carbon:    
 
http/www.ebay.co.uk/itm/500-ml-EasyCarbo-Easy-Life-liquid-carbon-fertiliser-/261075676494#vi-content
 
Let me know which you would go for please,
 
thanks,
 
dave

 

[ramram]

What type of lighting is it? LED, fluorescent, t8 ,t5 ,t5ho? How high above the tank is the lighting? by suspending the light higher above the tank you can reduce light intensity.
 
Your photo period is most likely much too long and is there any reason your doing a siesta?
 
Siesta's are in no way beneficial to plant growth, many people would argue they have a negative effect.
 
You should be looking to have one photo period starting at 5 hours, which you can gradually increase over the course of several months while at the same time increasing the carbon and nutrient amount.
 
The more light you give to a plant the more carbon and nutrients it will require, if there is an insufficient amount your plants will suffer. You need to find the balance point of lighting and nutrients. This is why you start with a short photo period, once you have established healthy growth you can start increasing the photo period for quicker growth but you must match the increase in lighting with an increase in carbon and nutrients or your'll be back to square one. you also need to ensure you have good flow around the tank so all the tanks have good access to the nutrients. Your spray bar set up is ideal but you may also need a power head to help.
 
Easy carbo is a good liquid carbon but for your size tank it will be quite costly each month as your'll more than likely need to double dose as your plants grow.
 
If you want to cut costs as much as possible then look into glutaraldehyde but like said above do a lot of research as it can be very dangerous stuff. 
are you in the UK?

 

[Deleted member 107737]

hi,
 
the lighting is t5 2 x 14w . this is it for the 150 litres. should i fit higher output tubes??
 
I have cut the lights out at midday for a few hours just for the fish. i thought it would give their eyes a break from the light and endure some natural light?? is that wrong??
 
thanks,


the tank was orginally a marine tank which i bought from a guy and made it a freshwater tank with 2 fancy fish. the light unit broke inside so i replaced it. i can put 14w or 24w lamps in. which is better for these plants??
 
Will the fish be ok with 24w x 2??


p.s. when i say light unit, i mean the electronic unit inside the sealed lighting unit. I bought a replacement from ebay. the original was 54w x 2 but i wanted to put something a little less as its only freshwater/ coldwater so i put 2 x 14 w in. but for a 150 litre tank this may not be power ful enough. I dont mind going to 24w x2 if this helps??

 

[coolie]

I'm seriously considering buying one of these for my DIY setup as it's the cap that has consistently given me problems.
http/www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Aquarium-Bottle-Cap-for-DIY-Co2-System-Live-Plants-Co2-Diffuser-/281099103151?pt=UK_Pet_Supplies_Fish&hash=item4172cfebaf

 

[ramram]

Plants dont care what light they get, they'll adapt to any light you give them. But remember the more light you give them (higher wattage/longer photo period) the more nutrients and carbon they will require. 
 
Like i've said, healthy plant growth is down to sufficent nutrients and carbon, light is merely the catalyst.
 
Stick with the 14w bulbs for the time being on a short continuous photo period (your fish will be fine) until you establish healthy growth. Once you have done this you can slowly start increasing the photo period and nutrients to achieve faster growth.
 
If you can I'd recommend you start EI dosing and think about adding a liquid carbon too.
 
 
Fish crazy. All you need is a pressurized drinks bottle (coke/pepsi,etc) Drill a hole in the lid slightly smaller than your co2 line then use silicon to seal it in place.