Need Advice On 2 Month Tank

[inawe]

I need some advice. I bought a 37 gal tank with the Eclipse bio wheel system. I didn't know about these sites, or I may have done something (a lot) differently, but instead I acted on advice from pet shop, which, I think EVERYONE that works there has a wonderful saltwater tank at home (???). Anyway, I just seem to keep cycling and cycling and getting NOWHERE! Everytime I take water in to be tested I get different advice from different people...do a water change...don't do a water change...clean tank...don't clean tank...
To make a long story short...my pH continues to be low (7.4), ammonia high (2.0ppm), nitrite high (1.0ppm), nitates low (0ppm). I have small amount of live rock and 3 clowns, who seem to be taking the horrible water in stride. I've tried bio spira and adding Stability. I've done a third water change, and cleaned the tank. Everything I've done has just gotten me in a worse mess. My rock and gravel have an ugly dark green layer of algae (I think that's what it is). At one point it was green. There is also something that looks like a spider web in one small area. The water is a little cloudy (just kind of foggy).
Any suggestions?

 

[Mr.September15]

A bit confusing but lets see what I understood. So your getting diffrent answers from your LFS? Hmm, well screw them. Most LFS don't know anything and it isnt neccssarily true that they own a fish tank themselves. What does your clean up crew consist of?

 

[inawe]

A bit confusing but lets see what I understood. So your getting diffrent answers from your LFS? Hmm, well screw them. Most LFS don't know anything and it isnt neccssarily true that they own a fish tank themselves. As for your parameters they look ok, its really hard to get them to 0 so anything close to that should work for now. What does your clean up crew consist of?

This is where I really feel stupid...what, exactly, is meant by clean up crew? I think I don't have one.

 

[SkiFletch]

Ok something is going horribly wrong if after two months you have ammonia at 2ppm and nitrite at 1ppm along with a 7.4 pH. Let me first ask you for some additional stats. Do you have readings for specific gravity (or salinity), calcium, carbonate, and magnesium? Please realize that to properly diagnose your problem we’re gonna need to go on a crash course of reefkeeping

First off, I dont know how a clownfish could survive 2ppm of ammonia for very long. Let alone two months. Knowng that, I tend to believe your test kit is faulty. I'm not trying to insult here, but these kits can go bad, or your methods may not be perfect. You need to make sure you shake things when they need to be shaken, and make sure you NEVER close the top of the bottle with your finger (since that leads to inaccurate readings. Has your LFS verified that your ammonia concentration is 2ppm? If so, yikes

Let me ask another question, how much LR is in the tank? Its POSSIBLE you dont have enough in there. Also how much and how often do you feed? You could be over-feeding. High ammonia is a sign of high decomposition (rotting food and/or other life) with low nutrient uptake by bacteria. Ammonia is also highly toxic to fish and I doubt even the hardy clownfish would be able to survive 2ppm for very long. Have that water verified exactly for ammonia from your LFS, cause thats really important. If it is truly that high, toss some more biospira in there (provided its refrigerated when you buy it) and do a big water change (30-40%) with obviously mixed saltwater.

Ok then second problem, the pH. This one is MUCH tougher to understand and you're gonna have to do a fiar bit of reading if you have hopes of grasping the concepts. First off, you'll need to read about Calcium, Alkalinity, Magnesium, and pH by Mr Randy Holmes-Farley. The quick example is that all parameters need to be in balance for the water to have the desired pH and if they crash or get way out of whack, you need to fix them slowly. Once you understand that relationship, have a read through this article on a DIY suppliment to help bring the water back up to the desired parmeters. And remember, correct pH problems SLOWLY, otherwise you'll just crash right back to the mid 7's and thats more harmful to the livestock.

Once you've got those things down we'll tackle your algae problem

 

[Mr.September15]

A bit confusing but lets see what I understood. So your getting diffrent answers from your LFS? Hmm, well screw them. Most LFS don't know anything and it isnt neccssarily true that they own a fish tank themselves.What does your clean up crew consist of?

This is where I really feel stupid...what, exactly, is meant by clean up crew? I think I don't have one.

Clean up crew is what you use to clean up debris,algae,and un-eaten food. You will need a clean up crew consisting of 37 crew members, following the rule of thumb 1 clean up crew per gallon of water. Although I've seen people go with 1 for every 2 gallons of water. Anywho you will need to pick up the clean up crew once you get your params down to save you the cost of having to buy more if the snails or the shrimp die because of the parameters. Once you got your whole parameter malfunction down you can go with this clean up crew list...

-15 Nas. Snails
-15 Astrea Snails
-1 Cleaner Shrimp
-6 Blue Legged Hermit Crabs

As for the astrea I would have a watchful eye out for them because they tend to fall on there backs and since they cannot get back up on there own you would have to do it by hand before it dies.

 

[inawe]

Ok something is going horribly wrong if after two months you have ammonia at 2ppm and nitrite at 1ppm along with a 7.4 pH. Let me first ask you for some additional stats. Do you have readings for specific gravity (or salinity), calcium, carbonate, and magnesium? Please realize that to properly diagnose your problem we’re gonna need to go on a crash course of reefkeeping

First off, I dont know how a clownfish could survive 2ppm of ammonia for very long. Let alone two months. Knowng that, I tend to believe your test kit is faulty. I'm not trying to insult here, but these kits can go bad, or your methods may not be perfect. You need to make sure you shake things when they need to be shaken, and make sure you NEVER close the top of the bottle with your finger (since that leads to inaccurate readings. Has your LFS verified that your ammonia concentration is 2ppm? If so, yikes

Let me ask another question, how much LR is in the tank? Its POSSIBLE you dont have enough in there. Also how much and how often do you feed? You could be over-feeding. High ammonia is a sign of high decomposition (rotting food and/or other life) with low nutrient uptake by bacteria. Ammonia is also highly toxic to fish and I doubt even the hardy clownfish would be able to survive 2ppm for very long. Have that water verified exactly for ammonia from your LFS, cause thats really important. If it is truly that high, toss some more biospira in there (provided its refrigerated when you buy it) and do a big water change (30-40%) with obviously mixed saltwater.

Ok then second problem, the pH. This one is MUCH tougher to understand and you're gonna have to do a fiar bit of reading if you have hopes of grasping the concepts. First off, you'll need to read about Calcium, Alkalinity, Magnesium, and pH by Mr Randy Holmes-Farley. The quick example is that all parameters need to be in balance for the water to have the desired pH and if they crash or get way out of whack, you need to fix them slowly. Once you understand that relationship, have a read through this article on a DIY suppliment to help bring the water back up to the desired parmeters. And remember, correct pH problems SLOWLY, otherwise you'll just crash right back to the mid 7's and thats more harmful to the livestock.

Once you've got those things down we'll tackle your algae problem

Water testing has been done by LFS. They've had me putting in Ammo Lock to keep it from hurting the fish. And I have a small amount of LR, about 5 lbs. How much would you recommend?
Where do I start? Do the water change and then biospira? Do I add that at the same time I add the water?

 

[SkiFletch]

They're having you treat with ammolock and then testing for ammonia, WHAT? Sorry, dont mean to yell at you, but you've been getting some horrific advice here. Ok, first off, 5lbs of LR for a 37g tank is WAY too little. The rule of thumb is 1lb/gallon or more so in your case I'd go with about 40lbs. Since you allready have 5, here's what I'd do. Get a big plastic bin (like a rubbermaid storage tub), and fill it say 1/2 the way with properly mixed, proper salinity saltwater. Stick a heater in it and get it up to 75-77f. Feel free to cover it with a blanket and a lid if neccessary to keep the heat in. Also get a small powerhead and stick that in there for some water movement (or use a cansiter or whatever, just need some turnover).

Then, take this bucket to the LFS (obviously after you unplug it) and purchase 35lbs of CURED LR and an ammonia test kit (or a master, you'll need these for yourself). Once purchased, put the rocks in the bucket and drive home SLOWLY (dont wanna toss things around too much). Keep the rocks in the bin with the heater on and the powerhead on for at least 24 hours. If after 24-48 hours there is 0 ammonia in your bin, the rock is fully cured/cycled and can/should be placed in your tank. Once you get the extra rock in there, do a 40% water change (might as well use the stuff from the bin as makeup water) and stop adding ammolock and cross your fingers. As the ammolock stops working the ammonia should be processed by the new rock, and the livestock should be safe.

If 35lbs of LR sounds expensive to you, try and find a local reefer breaking down their tank for a cheaper source (usually 1/2 price). Where are you from? US or UK?

 

[inawe]

They're having you treat with ammolock and then testing for ammonia, WHAT? Sorry, dont mean to yell at you, but you've been getting some horrific advice here. Ok, first off, 5lbs of LR for a 37g tank is WAY too little. The rule of thumb is 1lb/gallon or more so in your case I'd go with about 40lbs. Since you allready have 5, here's what I'd do. Get a big plastic bin (like a rubbermaid storage tub), and fill it say 1/2 the way with properly mixed, proper salinity saltwater. Stick a heater in it and get it up to 75-77f. Feel free to cover it with a blanket and a lid if neccessary to keep the heat in. Also get a small powerhead and stick that in there for some water movement (or use a cansiter or whatever, just need some turnover).

Then, take this bucket to the LFS (obviously after you unplug it) and purchase 35lbs of CURED LR and an ammonia test kit (or a master, you'll need these for yourself). Once purchased, put the rocks in the bucket and drive home SLOWLY (dont wanna toss things around too much). Keep the rocks in the bin with the heater on and the powerhead on for at least 24 hours. If after 24-48 hours there is 0 ammonia in your bin, the rock is fully cured/cycled and can/should be placed in your tank. Once you get the extra rock in there, do a 40% water change (might as well use the stuff from the bin as makeup water) and stop adding ammolock and cross your fingers. As the ammolock stops working the ammonia should be processed by the new rock, and the livestock should be safe.

If 35lbs of LR sounds expensive to you, try and find a local reefer breaking down their tank for a cheaper source (usually 1/2 price). Where are you from? US or UK?

Any suggestions on LR sources? LFS sells for $12 lb., or is this pretty average? Are the online sources reliable?

 

[SkiFletch]

You used a dollar sign so I'll assume you're a US or Canadian resident. If so, $12/gallon is a ripoff here on the western hemisphere IMO. Where exactly are you from?

Online sources are reliable but you'll have to cure the rock first before you add it to your display tank. Basically put it in a bucket with saltwater, a heater, and a pump for somewhere between 3-5 days until it cycles and stops reading anny ammonia/nitrite. Then you can proceed as though it were cured.

 

[inawe]

Deep South...Texas!

 

[cedyced]

Sorry to hear about all of your problems. But when I read how much you pay for live rock I choked.. I get all of my LR from here.
http/cgi.ebay.com/SUPER-PREMIUM-CURED-FI...1QQcmdZViewItem

The company has a website but they are cheper on eBay. They are out of Cali, I live in Phoenix and I have it shipped ground and I get it within two days after they ship. But the quality of their rock you won't get cheaper anywhere else unless you go get it yourself out of the ocean.

Good luck with your tank. My advice would be to use the forum as much as possible. The people on here are pretty cool and you can trust what they say becuause most talk from experiences that they've had. But with saltwater tanks there are 3 things that will make you successful. Research (you can never do enough) Patience (nothing is going to happen over night and shortcuts will almost always cost you more in the long run) and Money (it's just one of those hobbies like golf. you have to put money into it)
Like I said good luck and keep us posted.

P.S. Just like school, no question is a stupid question. Don't be afraid to ask... B)