My Heaters Cracked?

[PDSimon]

From your picture, the elements are exposed which should have caused a trip either between your live and neutral or live and earth. Im pretty sure your fish tank would have been live if the heater was turned on in your picture.


An RCD measures the current in both your live and neutral conductors. If a fault on your circuit occurs then the currents in each conductor with change. The RCD will detect this and trip which in turn will protect whatever equipment the RCD is protecting. It is well worth reading up on.

I have fitted many (im an electrician) and RCD disconnects very quickly, when testing an RCD the test results are recorded in milliseconds rather than seconds. It could save your fish at the end of the day!

http/www.greenbrook.co.uk/pdf/pbcatpg21-22.pdf

The only problem with RCD's is something called 'nuisance tripping'. It can happen but you may want to risk it.

Thanks for that. Apparently you can get them at b&q so will purchase one.. Cheers

If the electrics didn't 'trip' and the heater was still on, would the water have certainly been live?

 

[kaivalagi]

From your picture, the elements are exposed which should have caused a trip either between your live and neutral or live and earth. Im pretty sure your fish tank would have been live if the heater was turned on in your picture.


An RCD measures the current in both your live and neutral conductors. If a fault on your circuit occurs then the currents in each conductor with change. The RCD will detect this and trip which in turn will protect whatever equipment the RCD is protecting. It is well worth reading up on.

I have fitted many (im an electrician) and RCD disconnects very quickly, when testing an RCD the test results are recorded in milliseconds rather than seconds. It could save your fish at the end of the day!

http/www.greenbroo...bcatpg21-22.pdf

The only problem with RCD's is something called 'nuisance tripping'. It can happen but you may want to risk it.

Nuisance tripping can be gotten around by getting the correctly rated RCD though right? Aren't they rated in milliamps normally? 30mA / 80mA / 100mA etc so potentially getting a larger rated one will help. Not sure what rating would suit an aquarium heater?

Out of curiosity how long do you think the electricity would be flowing through the device in the case above if it went through an RCD? How much of a kick would the fish get if this happened...just wondering if it would trip before the fish would be electrocuted?

 

[stuuk1]

Well it is a tricky one and without knowing a hell of alot about current in water its hard to tell. Knowing that water and electricity are obviously deadly, its worth getting one in my eyes. My whole ring main is protected by one.

It housholds youy rcd will be rated at 30ma. The higher ratings of rcd are found in larger building e.g. offices (computers can have eath leakage of up to 5ma each!). I did a job once at a school and ended up putting a 100ma rcd in as they planned to have around 30 computers.

Fish are small and surrounded by the water, I have to be honest, I dont know if it would save them. A 30ma rcd has to disconnect within 200ms of the fault so quite possibly could save them. If on the other hand it didnt save them, you arrived home, your heater had cracked, your MCB hadnt tripped in your fuseboard and you put your hands in the tank.... you'd then wish you had an RCD!

RCD's are pretty cheap, if you dont want to upgrade your fuseboard (can be very costly) just buy a plug in one. Simple and much safer!

As for the question about a 100ma rcd to avoid nuisance tripping... I dont think you can get a plug in one, but could be wrong. I'd stick with the 30ma plug in. Nuisance tripping wont be a problem on just one appliance. Its when you have an rcd on whole installations.

 

[PDSimon]

Well it is a tricky one and without knowing a hell of alot about current in water its hard to tell. Knowing that water and electricity are obviously deadly, its worth getting one in my eyes. My whole ring main is protected by one.

It housholds youy rcd will be rated at 30ma. The higher ratings of rcd are found in larger building e.g. offices (computers can have eath leakage of up to 5ma each!). I did a job once at a school and ended up putting a 100ma rcd in as they planned to have around 30 computers.

Fish are small and surrounded by the water, I have to be honest, I dont know if it would save them. A 30ma rcd has to disconnect within 200ms of the fault so quite possibly could save them. If on the other hand it didnt save them, you arrived home, your heater had cracked, your MCB hadnt tripped in your fuseboard and you put your hands in the tank.... you'd then wish you had an RCD!

RCD's are pretty cheap, if you dont want to upgrade your fuseboard (can be very costly) just buy a plug in one. Simple and much safer!

As for the question about a 100ma rcd to avoid nuisance tripping... I dont think you can get a plug in one, but could be wrong. I'd stick with the 30ma plug in. Nuisance tripping wont be a problem on just one appliance. Its when you have an rcd on whole installations.

so 30ma with just the heater? or heater and filter (and lights...?)

 

[kaivalagi]

so 30ma with just the heater? or heater and filter (and lights...?)

Based on what stuuk1 said I would bet you could use one of the wall socket 30mA variety to plug a power adapter into for use with all your tank equipment, it's all about the leakage current added together for all the parts you use, which I bet collectively is less than 30mA...if not just get another and split the heater off maybe...

It would interesting to know if tripping off would save any fish when a heater fails for example.

I took a different route, I bought an external heater so have nothing electrical in the tank itself...and the external heater design should mean it can't short in contact with the water inself...although I may possibly add one of the RCD mains adapters anyway just to be on the safe side

They're £8 in homebase or B&Q:
www.homebase.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=20001&partNumber=732863
www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav.jsp?action=detail&fh_secondid=10278509

 

[PDSimon]

so 30ma with just the heater? or heater and filter (and lights...?)

Based on what stuuk1 said I would bet you could use one of the wall socket 30mA variety to plug a power adapter into for use with all your tank equipment, it's all about the leakage current added together for all the parts you use, which I bet collectively is less than 30mA...if not just get another and split the heater off maybe...

It would interesting to know if tripping off would save any fish when a heater fails for example.

I took a different route, I bought an external heater so have nothing electrical in the tank itself...and the external heater design should mean it can't short in contact with the water inself...although I may possibly add one of the RCD mains adapters anyway just to be on the safe side

They're £8 in homebase or B&Q:
www.homebase.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=20001&partNumber=732863
www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav.jsp?action=detail&fh_secondid=10278509

Cheers. You mean extension cable not power adapter right?

It'd be interesting to see, but not in my fish tank it wouldn't

 

[kaivalagi]

so 30ma with just the heater? or heater and filter (and lights...?)

Based on what stuuk1 said I would bet you could use one of the wall socket 30mA variety to plug a power adapter into for use with all your tank equipment, it's all about the leakage current added together for all the parts you use, which I bet collectively is less than 30mA...if not just get another and split the heater off maybe...

It would interesting to know if tripping off would save any fish when a heater fails for example.

I took a different route, I bought an external heater so have nothing electrical in the tank itself...and the external heater design should mean it can't short in contact with the water inself...although I may possibly add one of the RCD mains adapters anyway just to be on the safe side

They're £8 in homebase or B&Q:
www.homebase.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=20001&partNumber=732863
www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav.jsp?action=detail&fh_secondid=10278509

Cheers. You mean extension cable not power adapter right?

It'd be interesting to see, but not in my fish tank it wouldn't

4 way power adapter / extension cable, whatever you call them... edit: I think the correct term is a "gang socket"

You don't have fish yet but you could try it with your hand?

 

[PDSimon]

so 30ma with just the heater? or heater and filter (and lights...?)

Based on what stuuk1 said I would bet you could use one of the wall socket 30mA variety to plug a power adapter into for use with all your tank equipment, it's all about the leakage current added together for all the parts you use, which I bet collectively is less than 30mA...if not just get another and split the heater off maybe...

It would interesting to know if tripping off would save any fish when a heater fails for example.

I took a different route, I bought an external heater so have nothing electrical in the tank itself...and the external heater design should mean it can't short in contact with the water inself...although I may possibly add one of the RCD mains adapters anyway just to be on the safe side

They're £8 in homebase or B&Q:
www.homebase.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=20001&partNumber=732863
www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav.jsp?action=detail&fh_secondid=10278509

Cheers. You mean extension cable not power adapter right?

It'd be interesting to see, but not in my fish tank it wouldn't

4 way power adapter / extension cable, whatever you call them... edit: I think the correct term is a "gang socket"

You don't have fish yet but you could try it with your hand?

I hope the bacteria didn't mind getting an electric shock

 

[kaivalagi]

I hope the bacteria didn't mind getting an electric shock

Interestingly enough your ammonia levels dropped very soon after the "event", maybe you've found a new way to encourage bacteria growth

 

[PDSimon]

I hope the bacteria didn't mind getting an electric shock

Interestingly enough your ammonia levels dropped very soon after the "event", maybe you've found a new way to encourage bacteria growth

 

[stuuk1]

so 30ma with just the heater? or heater and filter (and lights...?)

Based on what stuuk1 said I would bet you could use one of the wall socket 30mA variety to plug a power adapter into for use with all your tank equipment, it's all about the leakage current added together for all the parts you use, which I bet collectively is less than 30mA...if not just get another and split the heater off maybe...

It would interesting to know if tripping off would save any fish when a heater fails for example.

I took a different route, I bought an external heater so have nothing electrical in the tank itself...and the external heater design should mean it can't short in contact with the water inself...although I may possibly add one of the RCD mains adapters anyway just to be on the safe side

They're £8 in homebase or B&Q:
www.homebase.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=20001&partNumber=732863
www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav.jsp?action=detail&fh_secondid=10278509

Give it a try and post your results. It wont trip out, I know this because I have an rcd on my whole ring main and I have all of my tank plugged in to it... ha!

If I were you, I'd plug, your filter, heater and lights in to it. The reason for this is

1. Its then protected and alot safer

and

2. If for some reason you come home from work and the fish tank lights are off but you remember turning them on... It means it has tripped and you need to get your heater back on!

 

[PDSimon]

so 30ma with just the heater? or heater and filter (and lights...?)

Based on what stuuk1 said I would bet you could use one of the wall socket 30mA variety to plug a power adapter into for use with all your tank equipment, it's all about the leakage current added together for all the parts you use, which I bet collectively is less than 30mA...if not just get another and split the heater off maybe...

It would interesting to know if tripping off would save any fish when a heater fails for example.

I took a different route, I bought an external heater so have nothing electrical in the tank itself...and the external heater design should mean it can't short in contact with the water inself...although I may possibly add one of the RCD mains adapters anyway just to be on the safe side

They're £8 in homebase or B&Q:
www.homebase.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=20001&partNumber=732863
www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav.jsp?action=detail&fh_secondid=10278509

Give it a try and post your results. It wont trip out, I know this because I have an rcd on my whole ring main and I have all of my tank plugged in to it... ha!

If I were you, I'd plug, your filter, heater and lights in to it. The reason for this is

1. Its then protected and alot safer

and

2. If for some reason you come home from work and the fish tank lights are off but you remember turning them on... It means it has tripped and you need to get your heater back on!

Thanks