My Fishless Cycle Log

[librarygirl]

Hi everyone, I hope you can stand another fishless cycle log!

I have a 12 gal Marineland Bow front. Here's a summary of my journey so far:

• End of March, I purchased a 5 gal Hex tank from PetSmart; they said to "let it run" for a week
• A week later I took my water to them and said it was "perfect" (of course it wasn't b/c it wasn't cycled, but did not even know the term then).
• I took home 3 Glofish (which I also learned much later on a forum that 12 gals is too small for danios)
• After my first very clumsy water change (water everywhere, lots of sloshing, stressing out already stressed fish), one died
• I took it back to PetSmart and they suggested I get two more to increase the numbers of the school to 4
• I then read that my tank was too small for them but I couldn't afford anything like a 20+ gal setup (plus I don't have a stand big enough right now) so I purchased the 12 gal that was on sale; I figured it was at least an improvement
• I tested my water 1-2x daily with the API kit for a month; pwc 1-2x daily for a month, ammonia never went over 0.25, but nitrates/nitrites never showed up either; I had an issue with ph fluctuations as well
• After a very large 70% water change (the ammo went up to 0.25 and I got nervous) the fish all started acting weird: staying at the top, gasping, hardly moving. I tested the water again and the ammo was zero or very close-to, ph was the same as before I changed the water (7.6), and no nitrates/nitrites.
• The next morning I found 3 dead. I tried taking the fourth one back to PetSmart but they wouldn't take it since it was past their 14 day return limit
• The lone fish was still gasping and wouldn't eat (very unlike her); it died shortly after. This was last Sunday. I still have no idea what happened and I just hope I don't repeat whatever it was in the future.

So now I'm going fishless. Hard lesson to learn.


Last Sunday I:

• did a 100% water change (treated with Prime),
• still using the filter that came with the tank when I had fish in it, I just rinsed it in old aquarium water
• Replaced the gravel and some decorations that I didn't like; I now wish I had kept the old gravel to put in a net or something in the tank as it must have had SOME bacteria on it, but oh well
• I went to ACE and bought their janitorial strengh pure ammonia (shook it to make sure: no foam)
• Cranked the heater up to 86 degress fahrenheit
• Cranked up the 4" air stone
• Covered the tank with a blanket to help the bacteria grow and hopefully limit algae
• Sunday night I put in 2 teaspoons of ammonia, which I thought was conservative. I checked it after 15 minutes and ammo was up to 8.0. So I did water changes to get it down to 4.

It's only been a few days. I've had to force myself to stop checking it (ammo still at 4, no nitrites) or I'll drive myself nuts. I'm going to wait until Friday or Saturday and hope I see some nitrites at least (DYING to see those 'trate colors change from the 0 levels I've seen for over a month now!).

To pass the time I'm researching some local lfs (other than the large chains ) to visit and see if I can find one I might trust enough to purchase my fish from. I'd also like to research stocking options so any suggestions in that area wouuld be great. I'd like to see where my ph ends up (and I'm going to be buying a GH/KH kit for my tap water) and then try to find fish that match my parameters, but in the meantime it's fun to plan.

So, that's it so far. Wish me luck!

RIP Hemingway
RIP Dickens
RIP Orwell
RIP Fitzgerald (aka "Fitzy")

 

[CollegeFish]

Don't quote me on this but could the gasping be a lack of oxygenated water?

Good luck, hope your nitrites appear soon!

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Don't quote me on this but could the gasping be a lack of oxygenated water?

Good luck, hope your nitrites appear soon!

I believe gasping is a primary symptom of ammonia poisoning...

 

[librarygirl]

Don't quote me on this but could the gasping be a lack of oxygenated water?

Good luck, hope your nitrites appear soon!

Sorry I did't put my username in the post title, just read the fishless cycle do's and dont's after I posted.

That's what I maybe thought too but I have an air stone (recently purchased). I'm wondering if maybe the gasses from the tap water were too much after such a large water change (I did it fairly quickly and didn't let the tap water stand), but that's the only thing I can think of.

Don't quote me on this but could the gasping be a lack of oxygenated water?

Good luck, hope your nitrites appear soon!

I believe gasping is a primary symptom of ammonia poisoning...

I was afraid of this too, but the water before the water change was 0.25 (or just shy of). After the water change it was zero or close-to. So I don't think it was the ammo. And they weren't doing this prior to the water change, just afterwards.

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll probably never know.

 

[librarygirl]

So day 6 of fishless cycle and nothing new to report.

Ammonia still at 0 and no nitrites yet.

I was hoping since I did have fish in there for almost a month and I'm using the same filter it would be going a bit faster but I guess not. When should I start worrying if I don't see nitrites?

Starting tomorrow I'm going to test ALL levels every 24 hours.

I'm also in the process of testing tap water (treated and untreated) at 1 hour, 12 hour, and 24 hour intervals to get readings, especially ph, b/c I had some fluctuation problems when the fish were in there (not sure if it was b/c of the cycling or problems with my water) and I want to get things sorted out before I put the fish in. I'm also going to order a GH/KH kit and test for those too. I'll post all of those readings when I get them all.

Until then, still waiting for the 'trates!

 

[johnson.ce2010]

Hi librarygirl

Sounds like we've done exactly the same thing! I feel awful for killing my fish but, like you, I looked to my lfs for advice and simply didn't know enough.

I am now on day 10 of my fishless cycle and I am starting to see nitrItes drop and am waiting for a rise in nitrAtes. However, I still have the gravel from when the fish were cycling my tank and I also squeezed out my old filter sponge into my new filter (I was using a biorb - now have a standard 60L tank) which seems to contain a lot of bacteria. I am also using seachem stability, perhaps this has helped speed up the process?

Just one thing - are you using a water conditioner/dechlorinator when you change your water? If not you may be killing all your bacteria when you do a water change.

Charlie

 

[librarygirl]

Hi librarygirl

Sounds like we've done exactly the same thing! I feel awful for killing my fish but, like you, I looked to my lfs for advice and simply didn't know enough.

I am now on day 10 of my fishless cycle and I am starting to see nitrItes drop and am waiting for a rise in nitrAtes. However, I still have the gravel from when the fish were cycling my tank and I also squeezed out my old filter sponge into my new filter (I was using a biorb - now have a standard 60L tank) which seems to contain a lot of bacteria. I am also using seachem stability, perhaps this has helped speed up the process?

Just one thing - are you using a water conditioner/dechlorinator when you change your water? If not you may be killing all your bacteria when you do a water change.

Charlie

Hi, yes I'm using Prime, been using it since I got the tank, even when the fish were in. How long did you have fish in the tank before they all died? I first had them in a 5 gal for about two weeks (which isn't long) then upgraded to a 12 gal. I did place the old filter on top of the new for a while before throwing it out; I doubt the old filter had much bacteria on it anyway. After about 3 weeks in the larger tank the fish died. I pretty much started over with new gravel and mostly new decor, just kept the filter and Bio wheel. But again i doubt the filter and wheel had much on them. I checked last night and the ammo is still at 4 ppm, no nitrites/nitrates yet. I'm not using any bacterial additives either. It's been about 8 days, which probably isn't long. I've read the first drop in ammo in fishless cycling can take up to 2 weeks if not longer so I'm trying not to panic yet, but it's just frustrating.

I'm glad your tank is starting to show some progress. Good luck!

 

[librarygirl]

Well I've added....and now I'm waiting. And waiting.

Ok, maybe 12 days isn't a whole lot of time, I know it can take longer, but

So I checked the tank today:

ammo still at 4 ppm
no nitrites (still a bright blue, not a hint of purple)
no nitrates
ph about 7.6, maybe a tad deeper blue than the API card
high range ph 7.4 (maybe a shade lighter)

Heater set at about 84-85 F
Mercury in-tank thermometer reads 86-87 degrees F

And the tank looks just gross. Very cloudy. At about day 3 I put in one flake of finely ground fish food; a day later it was a bit cloudy. Now it seems more cloudy (if I remove the tank hood and look down from the top I can barely see the bottom). And it feels slimy in there: the tank walls, the plants (mostly silk but a couple of plastic), the decor. Just ick.

Is this normal? Should I just wait it out more or could something be wrong?

I think I'm cursed

 

[librarygirl]

Well it's day 16, 17? Still have very cloudy water, still no trates or trites

A few days ago I did do a pwc maybe 4 gallons (12 gal tank). Added another few drops of ammo. Looks like ammo is at about 2 now, maybe 3 but no more. Nitrites are still a light blue, no trace of purple at all. Nitrates still gold.

Should I just wait some more or drain the whole tank and start over? I know it can take a while but I was hoping that having had fish in the tank prior to going fishless would have done SOMETHING to speed the cycle along.

Maybe I'll be the first ever case where a tank never cycles.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

No you won't be...

menacer's fishless cycle log might be of interest to you, he struggled and actually started over at one point, but it did come around eventually. I know it is hard, but try to remain patient. You are doing the right thing.

 

[OldMan47]

If you are seeing the gradual drop of ammonia for the first time, do not be too surprised if it takes far less time for the next drop. Nitrites can be hard to find on that very first drop but will show up as you continue dosing with ammonia. After waiting for 17 days to see an effect on ammonia, it may seem strange that the next drop will happen in only 2 or 3 days but that is typical. What is happening is that you are slowly building a small bacterial colony. The number of bacteria will double daily so the tiny colony that barely removes the last of your first dose over 2 days will tomorrow be big enough to remove 1 ppm daily and the next day it will be big enough to remove 2 ppm daily. As you can see, once things get going, they can move quickly. The nitrite processors will not have truly started to develop much yet so it can again take quite a long time before you see them respond at all. Again, once you see their effects, the processing of nitrites will also accelerate quickly.

 

[librarygirl]

If you are seeing the gradual drop of ammonia for the first time, do not be too surprised if it takes far less time for the next drop. Nitrites can be hard to find on that very first drop but will show up as you continue dosing with ammonia. After waiting for 17 days to see an effect on ammonia, it may seem strange that the next drop will happen in only 2 or 3 days but that is typical. What is happening is that you are slowly building a small bacterial colony. The number of bacteria will double daily so the tiny colony that barely removes the last of your first dose over 2 days will tomorrow be big enough to remove 1 ppm daily and the next day it will be big enough to remove 2 ppm daily. As you can see, once things get going, they can move quickly. The nitrite processors will not have truly started to develop much yet so it can again take quite a long time before you see them respond at all. Again, once you see their effects, the processing of nitrites will also accelerate quickly.

Thanks. I don't think the ammo dropped on its own, it dropped from 4 to about 2-3 after the pwc I did the other night. I added a few drops of ammo which maybe wasn't enough, the level seemed to stay about the same, maybe a shade darker than before the pwc but I just left it alone. So I don't think the ammo is even dropping on its own yet. That's why I'm wondering if something is wrong. I'll give it until Sunday and if I don't see any movement I might do a 100% pwc and start again. Thanks!

 

[Kaybear]

I didn't see any nitrites until day 19 on my cycle and it was barely noticeable on the test. I could tell it wasnt that same light blue i had been staring at for what felt like forever. I had a gradual daily increase of nitrites from there. It took a couple days after nitrites started showing up for my ammonia to start dropping too.

 

[Kaybear]

I'm sorry, I didn't see any nitrites until day 21 not 19

 

[librarygirl]

[font="verdana]OK well I was running out of patience and heard really good things about "active" seeded sponge filters being sold from [url="http/www.angelsplus.com/FiltersSponge.htm"]AngelsPlus[/url] So I ordered one a few days ago, shipped it Priority and it came yesterday.

I installed the sponge filter (I got the smallest size, 3", but it looks very large in my 12 gal lol), hooked it up to the air pump, etc. It came in some tank water so I poured most of that on top of my current filter pad and Biowheel, then put the rest in with the tank water.

I couldn't wait, so three hours after I added the filter I just tested for NitrItes. The tube wasn't purple but was darker blue than it's been so far, so I was cautiously optimistic.

This morning I just tested again, about 20 hours after I put the filter in:

• Ammo: 0.5 (a drop from 2-3 ppm that it was at yesterday before I added the filter)
  
  I just dosed it back up, waiting a few minutes before I test again to make sure the level isn't too high
• NitrAte: this is tricky; if I hold it AGAINST the card it matches 5.0, if I hover it over the card it's not quite that orange but definitely not yellow, so I'm guessing between 2.5 and 5.
  
• NitrITe: um, back to light blue, so zero
  
  I have no idea how this is happening. How can I have some nitrates, with ammo going down, and no nitrites? Or are they still not measurable? But shouldn't they be by now?
• Ph: about 7.6+, the blue is a shade darker than on the card (this has been holding steady every time I've tested so far)
• High range Ph: <7.6; maybe a shade lighter than the shade on the card, so my ph is probably around 7.5, which so far has been consistent save for a water change a week ago (that brought the PH down to about 6.6).

Ok, so ammo is starting to move, nitrAtes are starting to show, but no nitrItes yet? Is this possible? It's only been 20 hours so I'm hoping things will improve from here.[/font]