You can use RO water if your water is too hard. I've used it on all of my fish that predominantly thrive at soft water.I've got 253ppm
My first tank
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Salty&Onion
Fish Aficionado
Well, maybe in the future.. I have mollies and livebearers so
"All of that" is very important. Your GH determines what fish you can keep. If your GH doesn't match what the fish needs, you shouldn't keep them.
Also, "They can adapt" is a very poor/cruel way of keeping fish. It doesn't matter if they can adapt. What matters I that you provide what your fish needs, and then giving them those needs.
Salty&Onion
Fish Aficionado
Sorry for my reaction, but I totally agree with you. "They can adapt" is the false info LFS spreads, and its cruel.
No, totally fine! I hear that excuse more than you know. People always get fish on an impulse buy, and reap the consequences later down the road - its even more sad when they do nothing about it.
Salty&Onion
Fish Aficionado
I saw a dad, with his two kids who just bought a gold fish for their uncycled 5 gallon tankNo, totally fine! I hear that excuse more than you know. People always get fish on an impulse buy, and reap the consequences later down the road - its even more sad when they do nothing about it.
Hurts me when I see people buying fish and not knowing about their requirements.
Treestone
Fish Fanatic
I like to source all my fish from local breeders, in the majority of cases, they are bred in the same water conditions which is hard water in my case. Hard water species are bred for generations in conditions similar to their native spectrum and likewise, thrive in hard water. Also seriously fish is an amazing website yet it shouldn't be taken as gospel
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I think the hardness of the water isn't the real problem. The number and the tank size is the main issue.
OP, I'd urge you to return the yoyo loaches, please, or seriously consider whether you can upgrade them to a larger tank that can house 5 or more of them as adults. I'm speaking from personal experience, not fish care sheets.
I semi-inherited a 55 gallon that is a disaster. For around eight years now, there have been a pair of botia in there that are almost identical to yoyo loaches, perhaps pakistani loaches, we still haven't been able to identify the sub species.
Loaches get pretty big when they're adult, but crucially, they seem to be a pretty intelligent and highly social fish. They thrive in groups of five or more, form bonds and a pecking order, show every appearance of enjoying 'playing'. I love botia for this, they are beautiful, and very engaging to watch. When they're in good conditions, with lots of places to hide and a pack of buddies, they can be quite bold and funny and you'll see them a lot.
But these two botia in the 55 gallon for eight years.. they are not like that. They spend nearly all of their time hiding behind driftwood, you rarely see them. They do something called 'greying out' often, which usually means a stressed and unhappy loach. I'm absolutely positive that they do not show the full range of behaviours that loaches show, because there are only two of them. Loaches form that pecking order, and the dominant one can bully the other, and that bullying isn't dispersed among a few fish, but targeted at the only other botia, who is trapped. Same problem if there are three of them, two of them can gang up on the third. Larger groups mean they can form the kind of group bonds they need.
And now that I've inherited this problem, I'm stuck. Once I read up on them, I really wanted to get them some friends, so I needed to know the sub species. But, they hide so much, and move so fast when they come out, that it's incredibly difficult to get a clear identifying photo of their markings. The markings on different species can also change as they mature, and species photos don't show eight year old fish.. They look just like yoyos, and yet don't have that identifying Y shape. Yet every other species photo I check doesn't quite match either. I thought about buying some zebra or yoyo loaches to go in with them, and see if they would school together, but it doesn't work that way either, the other species could harass the old pair and make it worse. Then make the tank overcrowded to boot. My father refuses to give them away, and how would I find someone who has a group they could join, when we don't even know the species? So they're likely doomed to stay, and remain lonely until they pass. That's incredibly sad, and I really wouldn't want you to see this happen to your yoyos.
Have they survived in hard water for eight years or more? Yes. But have they thrived and been allowed to express the full scope of their natural behaviours? No. Have they suffered because of that? That depends on how you quantify suffering, but I would say that they've endured a certain kind of dull torture. No one wants to be a fishkeeper who doesn't care about the lives of their fish.
and I don't think your tank is large enough to house five or more adult yoyos.
Salty&Onion
Fish Aficionado
A gospel? Something that should not be taken as right? Well... In this case you're wrong too. Sorry.
Its been written by people who know more about fish than you do, therefore I trust it.
Fish from soft water will not adapt to hard water, deposits will be forming in their kidneys reducing their lifespan.
Then shame on the breeders that put them through that. You should do better, and keep them in the proper water conditions.
(I don't believe that we should take SF as a gospel - But, we need to look into it. Those profiles are written by professionals, people a lot smarter than me and you.)
Treestone
Fish Fanatic
It should be said that Bristlenose' are so widespread, possibly originally a soft water fish (so widely bred it is hard to determine origin) thrives in hard water as it may also occur in. Similiar with pristella tetra, yet they are adapted for massive fluctuations in hardness, possibly why they are one of the hardiest fish in the hobby. I don't try and keep acidophiles but fish suited to more neutral conditions are often kept in harder water. I agree with Adorabelledearheart
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First on the loaches, Botia almorhae (commonly called Yo Yo and various other names). All species of Botia are highly social fish; they must have a group of at least five, and they will develop a clear hierarchy very rapidly so the group should always be acquired together; there will be some in-fighting though not damaging if the fish are maintained in a group of at least five and there are numerous hiding places in the aquarium.
The above is an inherent "expectation" programmed into the species' DNA. It is cruel and inhumane to deny the fish what they need. I am not casting aspersions on the OP, as fish stores are regrettably unreliable with accurate information, and we all probably learned this the hard way. But to set the record straight, for others reading this thread and taking away "information," this is a shoaling fish and it needs a group. Denied this, it has two courses of action; become more aggressive, or withdraw and die. And before someone says it, watching these two fish swimming and eating does not mean they are "happy;" they are not.
Second on the GH issue. This is important for the long-term husbandry of the fish if we want the fish to be healthy and live a normal life. Pushing a species into an artificial number range for GH, etc, can be troublesome to say the least. I prefer to work in generalities. Fish from natural habitats where the water is very soft will be more likely to live a normal and healthy life in such water. Fish do not adapt to different water parameters, at least not in the sense the myths in this hobby would suggest. There are always exceptions, but a good general maxim is to research the habitat waters and provide reasonably close parameters. Some species have a wider tolerance than others, and when one looks into the species' habitats and geographical range this becomes somewhat clearer why it is the case. But it does not apply across the board, it is the exception rather than the rule.
Each species of freshwater fish has evolved over thousands of years to function within a very limited environment. The physiology functions well within that environment, and as soon as the environment changes, the fish is affected. Different species and differing conditions play into this, but it takes its toll on the fish. Livebearers will never live normal lives in soft water. Soft water species will not live normal lives in water than is significantly harder that what their physiology is designed to deal with, in order to maintain the every-day life functions. The farther away from the fish's preferences, the harder it must work just to exist. And this adds stress which weakens the fish in other ways, and always results in a shorter than expected lifespan.
The above is an inherent "expectation" programmed into the species' DNA. It is cruel and inhumane to deny the fish what they need. I am not casting aspersions on the OP, as fish stores are regrettably unreliable with accurate information, and we all probably learned this the hard way. But to set the record straight, for others reading this thread and taking away "information," this is a shoaling fish and it needs a group. Denied this, it has two courses of action; become more aggressive, or withdraw and die. And before someone says it, watching these two fish swimming and eating does not mean they are "happy;" they are not.
Second on the GH issue. This is important for the long-term husbandry of the fish if we want the fish to be healthy and live a normal life. Pushing a species into an artificial number range for GH, etc, can be troublesome to say the least. I prefer to work in generalities. Fish from natural habitats where the water is very soft will be more likely to live a normal and healthy life in such water. Fish do not adapt to different water parameters, at least not in the sense the myths in this hobby would suggest. There are always exceptions, but a good general maxim is to research the habitat waters and provide reasonably close parameters. Some species have a wider tolerance than others, and when one looks into the species' habitats and geographical range this becomes somewhat clearer why it is the case. But it does not apply across the board, it is the exception rather than the rule.
Each species of freshwater fish has evolved over thousands of years to function within a very limited environment. The physiology functions well within that environment, and as soon as the environment changes, the fish is affected. Different species and differing conditions play into this, but it takes its toll on the fish. Livebearers will never live normal lives in soft water. Soft water species will not live normal lives in water than is significantly harder that what their physiology is designed to deal with, in order to maintain the every-day life functions. The farther away from the fish's preferences, the harder it must work just to exist. And this adds stress which weakens the fish in other ways, and always results in a shorter than expected lifespan.
Well said.
Retired Viking
Fish Connoisseur
Having fish in the wrong hardness of water is like people eating a high fat diet, you can live with it and even enjoy the food but in time it will cost you your health and even shorten your life.
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