My betta fish community tank

[Mr. Shums]

I will say though that I adore all of your betta fish, they look like much better stock then mine which were bought at the fish store .

And I only have ten bettas in the tank right now. I hadn't given you the credit of COUNTING each fish.
I had more initally "around 20" but gave the even slightly agressive bettas away.

I'll admit I got carried away in the beggining and my intentions were experimental, and less care was given to the community. however, after I lost said fishes I started working on a better process for the introduction of the females, finding that they were the key in maintaing a peaceful society.

I have many new large fry from my endevors which is very exciting, as they won't have to live in jars. I may be able to prove my findings if I can manage to put about fifteen fish peacefully in the thirty gallon.

i'm not looking to start a betta fish revolution, but I'm very against jars and would like an alternative. If bettas could be placed within the same tank I'd imagine that more research could be done on their behavior, something I adore observing.

I'm going to be starting the larger community soon, hopefully I can maintain fifteen fish. In my observations two gallons per fish is plenty within a community tank, we'll see about that though.

You'll see pictures before the weekend is out though. Don't fret none bout that.

 

[xxSarahxx]

Is there any chance of some pictures yet?

EDIT: Sorry hadn't read your post about posting pics by the end of the weekend.
Oh and.......we don't all keep our Bettas in JARS!! All my males are in at least 15 litre tanks each!

 

[Andie]

The reason bettas are so agressive is because we treat them like fish, because of thier names.

If I totally got everything wrong in Biology, forgive me, but . . . gills, scales, fins, swim bladder . . . . it sure sounds like a fish to me . . .

it wouldn't kill you all to be a bit more open minded.

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Frankly, you're very lucky people have been as polite and open minded as they have been. We're trying to be fair to you and give you a chance to post pictures of the healthy, thriving community you have described to us, and I've no doubt when you post the pictures it will be easier for us to go from there. But so far all you have described is an overstocked tank and multiple deaths in your setup stage, as well as a lot of results that seem to us to be very unlikely. We've never seen your tank, we're reacting based on our own ample experience in the past.

I would call maybe half to a third of the people in this section of the forum 'hobbyists'- the remainder have been breeding on a large scale for a long time, and have considerable experience with the nature, temperament and needs of betta splendens. Until we see pictures, we can only go by what we have seen in our own 'travels' thus far. I personally am very interested to see this tank and close ups of the fish inside it, and until then I plan to reserve judgment, difficult though it might be

 

[xxSarahxx]

Andie - PERFECT!!!
Could not have said it better! Thank you for reading my mind!

 

[Booboo puppy]

Anything I could "say" has already been "said" much better and more politely than I can express.

 

[MegTheFish]

All I'm going to say is I think this guy knows what he is doing. I know I sound as bonkers as you people think he is, but I think its a great idea. I will now hide in a dark hole for a couple of years....

 

[clover]

like i said to xxsarahxx if i would ancer this in my way i would be booted and not allowed back i would be swearing but im holding back i know its wrong and i would never do this **bite ya tounge lea**

 

[OrkyBetta]

This topic would be far more interesting biologically if they had said that the tank was healthy and didnt have problems. But that is simply not it. What this person said is that they lost some fish, had aggression problems, and the fish are torn up a bit. This might work for a little bit, but the thing is, even if the fish don't kill eachother, the secondary infections will. The stress level in this tank sounds so high, what with overstocking, and fish living in fear, that if one of them did get sick, they are probably all going to get it, and not be able to fight it off because theyre so stressed. Hence, my time bomb analogy. But I would still like to see some pictures of this, because it still holds my curiosity, if anything.

 

[BrookeLea]

All I'm going to say is I think this guy knows what he is doing. I know I sound as bonkers as you people think he is, but I think its a great idea. I will now hide in a dark hole for a couple of years....

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I agree Meg. Well, to some degree. Assuming the things that this guy is saying are true. We really have no proof yet, though. *I* would *NEVER* attempt anything like this, but I think that this guy may be on to something. Lots of people thought that Aristotle was nuts, so I'm willing to give this guy a chance to prove himself.

 

[wuvmybetta]

Thanks to everyone for holding their composure. I've read some very well thought out posts in here

As for a betta community working - I would assume that this could never happen in anything less than a 30 gallon.

I know a guy who's been keeping multiple spawns (non-siblings) outside in a large pond with lots of plants, and he's been pulling out some of the best fsh he's ever raised. So, apparently they dont fight much, but having plenty of space and a habitat closer to nature is the only reason why.


Patiently awaiting pics

 

[Andie]

All I'm going to say is I think this guy knows what he is doing. I know I sound as bonkers as you people think he is, but I think its a great idea. I will now hide in a dark hole for a couple of years....

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lol don't hide, please Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion, after all; it's especially nice that opinions in and of themselves can't endanger the wellbeing of living creatures.

Yes, I know it sounds like he knows what he's doing, but any reasonably educated person can read up on a subject for a time and present an argument that will pass initial scrutiny (that's why some people who do well enough in high school fail miserably in university. Unlike most high school teachers, professors specialise in the subjects they teach, and their years of focus on that topic enable them to rip apart a faulty argument with a sort of beautiful ruthlessness that would put any male betta to shame!) That's why I am particularly keen to see pictures of these fish in their community, because both the state of the fish and the appearance of the community will go a along way toward proving or disproving his claims.

As to the actual wisdom of a setup like this, regardless of who is keeping it, I agree that I would never put my own precious stock through such an ordeal, simply because it goes against their natures. The reason that people who are experienced in keeping bettas know this should not work is because it goes against the natural behaviour of all betta splendens. In the wild bettas are consistently observed to be as fiercely territorial as they are in captivity, and males purposely seek out their own territory that is not inhabited by other males. Females may enter this guarded territory only with the intent to breed; any other interlopers, or females who are not coming in to breed with the resident male, are chased away by the dominant male (OrkyBetta, you condensed it far more beautifully in another thread, I know, but that's my own version! )

Either way, the wild behaviour of bettas has taught those of us who keep them in captivity that the male splendens are ill suited to dwelling in community tanks; only in an overstocked tank will a sort of frazzled peace descend, because they are too cramped to establish a territory of their own. Of course, these crowded conditions are extremely detrimental to the health of the fish, so unless water changes are almost impossibly regular, stock will gradually weaken and die off until only the strongest fish, if any, remain alive. Odds are that these remaining fish will then immediately attempt to assert their dominance over the few who remain, and the battles begin.

Much as we might want to force them to coexist peacefully, the inborn nature of the majority of young, healthy male splendens is such that chances are slim to none that such a utopia will occur.

 

[OrkyBetta]

Again, kudos to everyone posting wise. But I really want to know how, in all of their research, this user never once read anything that said males can't be kept together, and can't mix with females or other fish. I mean, they seem to have done quite a bit of research, but how they missed that when it is even on things like the petco sites is beyond me.

 

[Andie]

As for a betta community working - I would assume that this could never happen in anything less than a 30 gallon.

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ITA

I would actually love to someday set up a huge, well-planted wall tank, maybe 100+ gal or similar, and put in maybe two-three males and a small school of females just for the beauty of it. I think those would be some of the better conditions in which to view a close copy of wild behaviour, since the climate where I live is far from conducive to an outdoor pond

I, too, am still waiting to see these pictures

 

[BrookeLea]

Again, kudos to everyone posting wise. But I really want to know how, in all of their research, this user never once read anything that said males can't be kept together, and can't mix with females or other fish. I mean, they seem to have done quite a bit of research, but how they missed that when it is even on things like the petco sites is beyond me.

[snapback]871182[/snapback]​

i think he has read it, but is trying to prove it wrong

 

[OohFeeshy]

I really can't see this working permanently. Does this happen in the wild? No way hosey. But, I hear you say, our bettas are not wild. My point exactly. Where the bettas you find in Walmart or wherever bred to happily swim along with their own kind? No. And you can guarentee, if there was the slightest chance of this permanently happening, Walmart would have a betta community tank in no time, because its would be so much easier and cheaper than cups. And fewer losses.... Anyway, the bettas we have were mainly bred for long fins and colour. What do male bettas hate, and attack? Fish with long fins and bright colours. No matter on the species. Yes, there are exeptions. But is it really worth risking the lives of other creatures just because a community is 'pretty'? Umm.... Not in my books.

Anyway, if they act like you so say, then why do you not see this behavior in the wild, where there is a much larger area and far more places to hide?