Murrrrder ?!

[jumpjet]

Hello - have my first tank - prepped last week and stocked this week. pH was checked and ok, no algae problems to date. Left for dinner this evening, after feeding the "kids" returned to find 2 of the 3 tiger barbs dead, one missing both eyeballs, the other missing just one (oddly he was hidden in a corner of the tank under some plants - as if for someone to snack on later) I know my imagination is running away with me, but they were fine, active and colorful before we left. Could my tank chemistry have gone awry that quickly or do I have a murder mystery to solve. All listed below were recommended by pet store.

oh, anyone know who the eyeball eater is ?? We can sit and watch the tank and relax for hours and never notice these acts, but it seems the minute we turn our back, they're acting out Murder on the Orient Express or something !!!!!

Would appreciate any advice, suggestion, commentary available...

Jude
Rockwall, Texas

55 gal tank
2 tinfoils
1 tiger barb (remaining)
2 pink barbs
2 bala sharks (acting really odd)
1 algae eater
1 black red tailed shark
2 african electric blues
2 african kenyi
2 kissing gourami

 

[The-Wolf]

did you cycle the tank before you stocked it?

 

[GoldfishAttentionSpan]

First of all, the balas are probably acting weird because the tank is much too small for them, and they are a schooling species, and need larger schools. The red tailed shark may also be a problem. someone who is a little more experienced can elaborate on that better then I, but you will probably need to return all three of these fish.

We need to identify your algae eater. Could you supply a picture maybe?

Does he look like any of these guys?

Chinese Algae Eater: http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showto...8998&hl=chinese

Oto: http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=35094

Is it a pleco of some sort? http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showto...123628&hl=pleco
(just the body shape, the markings don't have to be exact, as there are different kinds of plecos, but just knowing it was a pleco would narrow down our search.)

 

[afireinside]

Wow, I just have to say the tank is overstocked to begin with and second, pH is just not the problem, you have your nitrates, nitrites, hardness, etc. to check also. I'd advise re-thinking your tank planning.

 

[jumpjet]

yes, cycled the tank about 4 times over the course of 6 days

 

[Lord Zogat]

yes, cycled the tank about 4 times over the course of 6 days

The Tiger Barbs at the fish store will turn on one another and often pick on a weak one, eventually they stress out and stop swimming making them even easier of a target. They die of stress or are killed by the other barbs.

I saw this almost take place with horror at one of the stores tanks. They were chasing a fish constantly, came back a bit later and one was dead, eyes missing, others attacking it.

This is why I decided not to start with Tiger Barbs

 

[jumpjet]

The algae eater is the 3rd pic you provided - pleco, looks just like this

the nitrite, nitrate, pH, hardness, etc was tested repeatedly at the purchasing store - as well as the number/type of fish for the tank....why does it seem like i would have received better advice from my 7 year old then the pet store manager ?!?!?

soooo, these guys can just *plop* and keel over in a matter of hours ???!!! ( i know i am very naive to this, bear with me )

awww jeez. great. and the tiger barbs were very pretty and fun to watch.

what's with the eyeball eating ?

 

[dwarfgourami]

The algae eater is the 3rd pic you provided - pleco, looks just like this

the nitrite, nitrate, pH, hardness, etc was tested repeatedly at the purchasing store - as well as the number/type of fish for the tank....why does it seem like i would have received better advice from my 7 year old then the pet store manager ?!?!?

soooo, these guys can just *plop* and keel over in a matter of hours ???!!! ( i know i am very naive to this, bear with me )

awww jeez. great. and the tiger barbs were very pretty and fun to watch.

what's with the eyeball eating ?

Your fish are most likely to have keeled over and died from ammonia poisoning. You need to read up on the pinned topic of cycling. To sum it up briefly: When fish breathe and excrete they produce ammonia. Ammonia is toxic to fish. The reason fish can still survive in a fish tank is that eventually ammonia-eating bacteria grow in large enough numbers to deal with the ammonia. they convert it to nitrites (also toxic); eventually nitrite-eating bacteria grow to turn it into nitrates which the fishkeeper dilutes by weekly water changes. The bacteria won't start growing until you have a source of ammonia in the tank- i.e. either fish or regualr additions of ammonia out of the bottle (the so-called fishless cycle). In order to get the bacteria to grow without reaching fatal levels of ammonia, you need to add fish VERY slowly over a long period of time. You need to start with hardy fish for this process- none of the ones on your list, unfortunately. Alternatively, you could have done a fishless cycle, adding ammonia over a period of probably a few weeks (however long it takes), testing daily to check on the growth of bacteria.
Choosing fish to go in an aquarium is quite a complicated process. If you consider that fish are at least as diverse in their different species as mammals, you will see that you can't just bung any mammals (tigers, antelopes, guineapigs, cats) into a pen and expect them to get on together or thrive under the same conditions. Some of your fish are African lake cichlids- they need hard water and careful matching as they can be aggressive. The balas need a school- and masses of space. Etc. It's what makes fishkeeping so interesting- and so hard, that there is this vast array of totally different animals on sale, but it does mean a lot of research.

 

[bobbicus]

i did wonder about the comment ....... "cycled the tank 4 times over 6 days"

does a fishless cycle take this quick amount of time ?

cut down on the feeding as you are over stocked too!!!!

did the lfs sell you all your current stocking of fish at once to go all in the tank???

sorry for the qu's but as you say you are new - it is good idea to try to find out what you did wrong - OR how bad advice you were given

 

[jumpjet]

i did wonder about the comment ....... "cycled the tank 4 times over 6 days"

does a fishless cycle take this quick amount of time ?

cut down on the feeding as you are over stocked too!!!!

did the lfs sell you all your current stocking of fish at once to go all in the tank???

sorry for the qu's but as you say you are new - it is good idea to try to find out what you did wrong - OR how bad advice you were given

thanks for the advice on the extensive research needed - then cycling length was suggested by a friend who's kept fish for awhile. yes, the entire process included me practically living at the pet store asking everyone questions. the day i went in to buy the fish, the manager sold me the entire list at once - telling me that wouldnt grow much (they are an average of 1.2 -2 inches long right now)...(sigh) something is telling me i should have done the exact opposite of everything i was told over the last month !

no apologies for the qu's - i truly appreciate your candor and honesty !

can daily water changing (cycling) help at this point or am i doomed to slow walks to the tank every 20 minutes to see who's passed on next ???!!!

 

[sussexgirl]

can daily water changing (cycling) help at this point or am i doomed to slow walks to the tank every 20 minutes to see who's passed on next ???!!!
[/quote]

Cycling doesn't simply mean changing water in your tank. I really think you need to read some of the pinned articles on this board regarding setting up and stocking a tank. Cycling refers to establishing the correct bacteria in your tank to cope with amonia, nitrite and nitrates. Water changes can help reduce these toxins in your water. However the process involved in 'nurturing' the bacteria that our tanks need to cope with these toxins is a lot more in depth than simply changing water. Please read the articles because they really helped me a lot when I set out in this hobby.

Also, I really would advise you to buy your own testing kits are these are extremely useful to have when cycling your tank. I'm in the UK and would heartily recommend the Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Master Test Kit. It's reliable, extremely easy to you and a whole lot easier than trecking to your lFS all the time. I'm pretty sure this brand is available in the States too. Your tank is not cycled yet and you won't know when it has until you have monitored the amonia, nitrite and nitrate spikes in you water. It's only when the amonia and then nitrite have spiked and fallen to zero levels that your tank has cycled and this took me 6 weeks from prepping the tank, adding the fish a week later (6 hardy Platys) and regular water testing and changes.

My advice to you would be to return your fish to the store because it seems you've been given some really bad advice. Find a different fish store but before you do anything read up on the cycling process and fish species. Ask as many questions here as you want and really try and make use of the knowledge here on this board. Best of luck to you.

 

[bobbicus]

you can cycle the tank with fish (but this seems not the preferred way of cycling) as it involves fish and they are then exposed to NH4 and NO2 whilst the tank cycles - therefore possiby harming the fish

research i have read about cycling with fish says that although fish may survive the cycle process - their lives maybe shortened as they exposed to substances that they are really not designed to effectively live through the NH4 and NO2

daily water changing DOES improve the water quality - however - the process of cycling will actually slow down as the concentrations in your tank will be diluted through these too frequent water changes

water changing can also alleviate the concentrations to the fish that are "cycling" the tank - but CAN slow the process down - the concentrations are determined by the use of a test kit (API test kit) is excellent for this - can also tell us how REALLY BAD we keep the water!!!!!

all your current stocking is not really adequate for cycling - (other people wil say DO NOT USE FISH) - but as beginners or if you are actually a whizz at maths then maybe the fishless cycle is the way to go as this DOES happen a lot quicker than cycling with fish.

it is amazing how wrong advice you were given and i was given the saem BAD advice from a small fish shop - that i thought would tell me the truth, sell me what i needed etc etc etc......

oh no.......sold too many fish!!!!!!!!

suppose sum fish stores have to make money some how - but they forget fish are living creatures i think !!!

i hope we are helping - just a problem has arisen and it needs sorting!!

 

[jumpjet]

all your current stocking is not really adequate for cycling - (other people wil say DO NOT USE FISH) - but as beginners or if you are actually a whizz at maths then maybe the fishless cycle is the way to go as this DOES happen a lot quicker than cycling with fish.

it is amazing how wrong advice you were given and i was given the saem BAD advice from a small fish shop - that i thought would tell me the truth, sell me what i needed etc etc etc......

oh no.......sold too many fish!!!!!!!!

suppose sum fish stores have to make money some how - but they forget fish are living creatures i think !!!

i hope we are helping - just a problem has arisen and it needs sorting!!

You have no idea how much I appreciate your help & patience !
Tried to return the chichlids to the pet store - to no avail - INSTEAD insisted i buy ANOTHER 55gal tank and start a separate gaggle altogether, and boy did they have a group of fish to sell me today !!!!

On the upside, found the testing kits suggested AND half a dozen books - you guys have put me on the right path !

 

[fish_fetish65]

suppose sum fish stores have to make money some how - but they forget fish are living creatures i think !!!

heh... i have taken some serious beatings from customers when i have refused to sell them fish... such as the guy who wanted to get 4 koi for his ten gallon tank...

 

[Mertus]

Find a home for your fish, thats a heap of money waster but it really is for the best, maybe another lfs can take them in for store credit.

Once youve done that, start your tank back up and add 5 zebra danios, very hardy fish, personally what i use to cycle new tanks.

Keep checking the cycle with test kits.

Youll have a spike of ammonia, in time the ammonia will start to decrease and nitrite increase, then nitrite increase and nitrate increase. Its that simple

Once you cycle is finished you can start adding some other fish.

As a begginer you should be careful what fish you choose to start off with, imo stay away from chichlids and sharks, dont get a pleco imo, get ottos instead.

Try livebearers such as plattys, which are also rather hardy fish, get some corys easy to look after.

good luck!