Murky water not going away, fish getting stressed & going to surface- help!

Can you let us know exactly which fish and how many you have in the aquarium...along with when you added them too please

Reason for asking is that there are many (far too many) shops who suggest this and that and assure you all will be fine when infact the wrong fish, wrong number of fish and just plain bad advice has been given.

With what appears to be a lightly part cycled aquarium without accurate water chemistry testing, you might well be overstocking, have the wrong species suited to the aquarium type/size...all of which will inevitably lead to losses and other issues with the fish and water chemistry
We added 4 mollys & 6 mini tetras after 2 weeks of it running. Then 3 silver dollars (one of which I lost yesterday prior to posting on here) & 3 Corys a week on, then 4 sword tails (little orange and silver things) & a Siamese fighting fish 10 days on from that. They’d all been together for 8 days before I had the issue last night. After reading recommendations & suggestions I did a little more research, definitely think it’s a bacteria spike leading to ammonia increase. I am pleased to announce all fish are fine this morning, I have just done another 75% water change & plan to visit the shops today to pick up some ammonia test kits.
 
We added 4 mollys & 6 mini tetras after 2 weeks of it running. Then 3 silver dollars (one of which I lost yesterday prior to posting on here) & 3 Corys a week on, then 4 sword tails (little orange and silver things) & a Siamese fighting fish 10 days on from that. They’d all been together for 8 days before I had the issue last night. After reading recommendations & suggestions I did a little more research, definitely think it’s a bacteria spike leading to ammonia increase. I am pleased to announce all fish are fine this morning, I have just done another 75% water change & plan to visit the shops today to pick up some ammonia test kits.
Oh my goodness......you are severely overstocked and you have a predator fish (Siamese Fighter) too

Can you tell me the length, depth and height of your aquarium please?

I think you might have to return some of those fish, there are too many in the aquarium and the species mix is completely wrong

I'm sorry....whoever told you they would be OK in the aquarium was basically making a sale and not thinking of the welfare of the fish. All those in an 80 litre aquarium is frankly...insane.
 
Oh my goodness......you are severely overstocked and you have a predator fish (Siamese Fighter) too

Can you tell me the length, depth and height of your aquarium please?

I think you might have to return some of those fish, there are too many in the aquarium and the species mix is completely wrong

I'm sorry....whoever told you they would be OK in the aquarium was basically making a sale and not thinking of the welfare of the fish. All those in an 80 litre aquarium is frankly...insane.
How many should we have? Research wise it seemed right for the size of tank. We were warned the Siamese fighting fish may go for the mollys but he’s been fine. Quite a loaner & happy with the other fish (up until yesterday). I’m afraid I’m already out for the day so can’t give you dimensions until much later
 
Goodness! They are tiny at the moment (maybe just over an inch?) we had no idea. Thank you for the advice, I definitely think a re-think is in order
 
How many should we have? Research wise it seemed right for the size of tank. We were warned the Siamese fighting fish may go for the mollys but he’s been fine. Quite a loaner & happy with the other fish (up until yesterday). I’m afraid I’m already out for the day so can’t give you dimensions until much later
A Siamese Fighter will be docile often for months and then turn on tankmates

They are not community fish due to being hard wired to fight...especially anything with flowy type tails or finnage.

Where did you research the fish for the aquarium?

You have a 21 gallon aquarium......the length of the aquarium needs to be checked against the fish.

That many fish which are unsuited to such a small aquarium added onto the fact it was not cycled fully is asking for some serious trouble

@Essjay
@itiwhetu

Your water chemistry is never going to be right due to the overstocking....the fish are essentially swimming in their own waste
 
Goodness! They are tiny at the moment (maybe just over an inch?) we had no idea. Thank you for the advice, I definitely think a re-think is in order
When you get the chance, please take a photo of the entire aquarium from the front and post it cos it will be helpful along with knowing the dimensions of the aquarium to decide which fish you can keep and which have to be rehomed or taken back to the shop
 
On top of the serious overstocking issues are their any pieces of wood in the tank? Or rocks? If so what type? Where did you get them from?
 
Hopefully others can chime in here and help...especially with the stocking issues

@Byron
@AdoraBelle Dearheart
@Fishmanic
@Caesar

I agree with you, Byron and Naughts - you've all hit the nail on the head so far! Beginner to the hobby being given terrible advice from the fish store, so now has an overstocked tank going through a fish-in cycle. Hate when this happens! So unfair to both the fish, and the new hobbyist who doesn't deserve to have to go through this!
We have a fresh water tropical fish tank- 80L with the advised amount of fish. Have had it up and running for about 6 weeks with no dramas at all, last 24 hours it just won’t clear. We’ve lost a fish & the others are clearly stressed. 2x 40% water changes calms them down but only for a short while before they go back to the top and gasp for air. All the tests are showing fine & filer is clean, what am I missing?

Hi @Tiggerpal1989 , I'm so sorry this happened to you! Sadly, it's a common way people are introduced to the hobby. There's a steep learning curve in the beginning, with a lot of aspects of fishkeeping to take in. Can be overwhelming, and it's so much harder when mis-sold fish and given bad advice- as you have been. It makes sense to trust the fish store when you're new to the hobby. They should know how to keep them! But sadly too many of them don't, or they don't care, just make the sales and make it up as they go, and you're stuck trying to sort it all out.

The good news is that it's a good sized tank for a beginner to manage well, and that you can get through this and have a good chance of saving the rest of the fish! Coming here was the right choice :D

Keep up with the water changes daily. You are wildly overstocked I'm afraid, with a poor mix of fish, and the tank not fully cycled yet, meaning the fish waste is building up and poisoning the fish. That's why they're stressed/gasping/pale etc, and explains the ones that passed away. @Naughts is right, stop feeding for now - fish don't require nearly as much food as mammals do, since they take their body temp from the water, not generating it internally. So going even a week or two without food isn't a problem for them. But adding food to the tank now could easily kill the remaining fish. More waste in equals more waste out, more ammonia and nitrites in the water.

Seachem Prime water conditioner is a good choice in this situation too, Naughts is right there. It binds ammonia and nitrite for 24-48 hours, making the tank water safer in between the large daily water changes, which increases the chances of survival for the remaining fish.
Another good suggestion thank you, water out of the tap virtually the same as the tank. I’ve attached a photo of what we are testing against, sorry still quite new to all of this

Yeah I'm sorry, they mis-sold these things to you too I'm afraid. Dip strips aren't terribly accurate, these don't test for the important things we really need to know when keeping fish either. The API Freshwater Master test kit is a gold standard one across the hobby, most of us use it. It might seem pricey at first compared to the dip strips, but it's not only much more accurate, but you get more tests out of them too. My kit has lasted more than a year even with three tanks running :)

For now the numbers you're really going to need to know are ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and pH.
I would highly recommend the API master test kit... It is more accurate that strip tests. About the "cycle" you did... You cannot just have a tank sit and then expect it to do good... There was no bacteria being built during that time to help with bio load. I highly suspect that this is a bacteria bloom and would be ok if there were no fish... I would do apx a 75% water change daily for a week maybe... Just to see if that helps

Agreed on the master test kit!
a bacterial bloom in a new set up is certainly common, and can make the water look quite milky. Fortunately even in a stocked tank, the bacteria aren't ones that are harmful to fish. :) So don't worry about cloudy water/bacterial blooms for now, concentrate on large daily water changes and returning some of these fish!
We added 4 mollys & 6 mini tetras after 2 weeks of it running. Then 3 silver dollars (one of which I lost yesterday prior to posting on here) & 3 Corys a week on, then 4 sword tails (little orange and silver things) & a Siamese fighting fish 10 days on from that. They’d all been together for 8 days before I had the issue last night. After reading recommendations & suggestions I did a little more research, definitely think it’s a bacteria spike leading to ammonia increase. I am pleased to announce all fish are fine this morning, I have just done another 75% water change & plan to visit the shops today to pick up some ammonia test kits.

Good job on getting straight on that! Seriously. I know this can overwhelming, but the most important thing to remember now is to do the large daily water changes, matching the temp of the new water to the temp of the tank before you add it and using water conditoner, no other chemicals. Ideally Seachem Prime, if you can get hold of it.

Also, don't touch the filter media yet - that's where the bacteria you need are establishing themselves, so don't try to clean it or anything yet. When it does come time to clean it, remember never to rinse it under the tap/in untreated tap water, since that contains chlorine, which would kill the beneficial bacterial you've worked so hard to build up. Only ever rinse the sponges etc out in a bucket of old tank water you've removed during a water change.
Oh my goodness......you are severely overstocked and you have a predator fish (Siamese Fighter) too

Can you tell me the length, depth and height of your aquarium please?

I think you might have to return some of those fish, there are too many in the aquarium and the species mix is completely wrong

I'm sorry....whoever told you they would be OK in the aquarium was basically making a sale and not thinking of the welfare of the fish. All those in an 80 litre aquarium is frankly...insane.

Goodness! They are tiny at the moment (maybe just over an inch?) we had no idea. Thank you for the advice, I definitely think a re-think is in order



Agreed with @wasmewasntit , you're definitely badly overstocked and have been sold unsuitable fish. The silver dollars and siamese fighter especially. I would return those ASAP.

If you have female swordtails and mollies, that could also be a problem later, since they tend to arrive already gravid, produce lots of fry every month, and leave people quickly overstocked. But we'll worry about that later since it's less urgent!
 
Thank you so much for all your helpful advice. It’s a minefield! I keep horses and thought they were complicated/hard enough, this is a whole different level. Have read through everything everyone has said and will be taking actions. Lesson learnt 🥴 poor fish
 
Thank you so much for all your helpful advice. It’s a minefield! I keep horses and thought they were complicated/hard enough, this is a whole different level. Have read through everything everyone has said and will be taking actions. Lesson learnt 🥴 poor fish

Ooohh! I know it's off-topic, but would love to see some pics of the horses, if you don't mind sharing! I was a horse mad girl, as many of us are! Lucky enough to have weekly riding lessons, and spend weekends helping out at the stables, but never able to afford my own horse sadly. I haven't been riding in a long while, and I miss it! Still love horses though. Amazing animals. And a lot of work and expense to maintain, so I get you there! ;)

The good news is that the tank will get easier. You're obviously open to learning and doing what it takes to fix it, which is the main thing! Once it's fully cycled and settled down, and you have the right amount and mix of fish, it'll get much easier to maintain. Then, weekly large water changes are usually enough, depending on the tank. The large daily changes are an emergency measure due to the circumstances, so it's a temporary thing. :)
 
Don't beat yourself over this

You are not the first....and you definitely will not be the last...to have been given duff information about fishkeeping.

Once you have posted a full frontal photo of the aquarium as it stands now and given us the water chemistry results with the liquid test and the dimensions of the aquarium....we can get things started properly and get you in the right direction in regard to your maintenance regime and choice of fish.

Sad to say there are more stores out to make a sale than who actually care about their fish welfare and giving the right information, especially to newbies to the hobby. Blind people with enough science and you can sell a snowball to an Eskimo.

In regard to your tap water chemistry...hardness etc...go to your water company website and search for hardness and they will ask for your postcode which will then give you a full run down of what is coming from your tap.
 
I agree with what the others have said. You have been badly advised by the shop. We have all been there at some point, and got through it.


Going forwards, you are going to need to rehome some of your fish, we can help you decide which ones. And we can help you keep the remaining fish alive, though it does mean some work for you.


I'll explain in basic terms why everyone is concerned about your ammonia level.

Fish excrete ammonia, it's their version of urine. But it's poisonous to fish - it burns their skin and gills making it harder for them to get oxygen through their gills. This is why they gasp at the top of the water where the oxygen is richer. In a 'cycled' tank there are bacteria which 'eat' ammonia and they 'poop' nitrite. Unfortunately this is also toxic - it binds to their blood and stops oxygen binding. It does to fish what carbon monoxide does to us. In a 'cycled' tank there are more bacteria which eat this nitrite and they poop out nitrate.
There are virtually none of these bacteria in a brand new tank. And they are very slow growing bacteria; it takes weeks to grow enough of them to deal with the ammonia made by fish and the nitrite made from that ammonia.
When fish are put in a brand new tank they start excreting ammonia and this builds up and harms the fish, so whenever a tester reads above zero, the fish keeper must do a water change to get it back down to zero. With a lot of fish, this may mean at least one water change a day, maybe two. Between water changes ammonia will go up and this will feed the ammonia eaters. Once they start to grow, nitrite will start to appear and like with ammonia a water change must be done when this reads more than zero. After a couple of weeks, ammonia will go up slower and slower then stay at zero, but nitrite will then rise until that too goes up slower and slower until it too stays at zero. At that point you have enough bacteria and can start doing weekly water changes.


Going forwards, you need to take the silver dollars and fighting fish back to the shop. While there, buy an ammonia tester and plants. Live plants. If they sell it get several bunches of elodea and remove the stuff round the roots and just leave the stems to float. It won't look pretty but it will help. Plant use ammonia as fertiliser and they'll help with the ammonia level. Plants don't turn ammonia into nitrite so they help with nitrite too.
 

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