More help stocking

[Beastije]

The Bolivian rams will not welcome any more bottom dwellers. The danios are too busy for most surface dwellers as they are usually relatively passive.

While the stocking is already decided, I want to comment on that bit. I have no idea where the idea that bolivian rams are aggressive toward bottom dwellers came from. The bolivian are absolute puppies. They will only chase other fish away for few centimeters, sort of like a scare off, I have not yet seen them bite any fish and never even more than a chase. They will absolutely destroy snails, but fish? Not ever
I have had a group for 2 years, regular pairing off, regular spawning, I have had them with corydoras, zero issues or aggression, otocinclus that hang out in the branches near the bottom, amano shrimp that will steal food from their mouth and the past year with a group of kuhli loaches that slither all over and now recently red lizzard whiptails and they coexist with absolute calmness.
Hell I even have them with a 5 (female only, by pure luck) group of pearl gourami for the past year and a half. None of this are random or temporary or short term experiences.

That fish is simply not aggressive, in fact I will be getting more females since I lost one due to a stuck behind a heater incident.

To this tank in question I would not recommend bottom dwellers due to the substrate, but other than that,...

 

[Fishkeeper123]

I really like the rams they do seem really peaceful fish(for cichlids.) I have seen a quite a bit of chasing for territory(they are in a 20 gallon quarantine tank). They seem to get on great with my BN. Unfortunately they don’t seem to eat snails, so I bought some assassin snails. I wish I thought more about the substrate but I saw on a video that the darker gravel substrate is great for the Bolivian rams as you can see clearer colours. Are there any fish I can get just get one or a few of? I think the rest of my family miss the garras( they had so much character) but don’t plan on adding them back so wondering if there are any fish that would work to go with my current fish and the shoal of rummynose?

 

[CassCats]

@Beastije my Bolivian hates albino cories. Fine with normal ones of same species, but attacks albino on sight. He also killed the other Bolivian ram. They can be a problem. And I'm talking biting and ramming, not just chasing.

 

[Beastije]

@Beastije my Bolivian hates albino cories. Fine with normal ones of same species, but attacks albino on sight. He also killed the other Bolivian ram. They can be a problem. And I'm talking biting and ramming, not just chasing.

It is possible that solitary rams will behave differently than what I achieved with my group dynamic. I had five, same batch, together since juveniles and their dynamic is really stable and as I am writing they are watching Kuhli loaches steal the food pellet with sad faces

 

[Fishkeeper123]

Yeah I’m a bit concerned one of my rams will kill the other as one gets constantly chased/bullied( hopefully this will stop when moved out of quarantine tank.) But they are currently in a 20 gallon with limited hiding spaces for them(2 pieces of driftwood). But they seem to get on great with the bristlenose who is surprisingly not shy and has grown loads.

 

[Naughts]

Yeah I’m a bit concerned one of my rams will kill the other as one gets constantly chased/bullied( hopefully this will stop when moved out of quarantine tank.) But they are currently in a 20 gallon with limited hiding spaces for them(2 pieces of driftwood). But they seem to get on great with the bristlenose who is surprisingly not shy and has grown loads.

This is possible - searching these forums will readily provide examples of it. I don't think Beastjie was being literal when they said 'not ever'.

It is important to include caveats when thinking things through. You need to consider the size of the tank and the gender of the Bolivians as well as the compatibility of tank mates. In your 100cm tank you should only have one or a pair, and pairings may work for a while but then go wrong. In the wild a male could have several square meters of territory, and any uninvited guest would have the ability to leave when 'asked' to do so. Obviously there is no escape from our glass boxes.
For territorial fish, intruders equate to stress, stress causes disease, and disease is tough for the fishkeeper as well as the fish.

My earlier suggestion of shoaling mid to upper level fish was to avoid the above, but also because they would be good dithers for the Bolivians. We need to research well and watch for messages in the behaviour of our fish.

This article is useful for understanding the chasing and charging that you are seeing: https://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/features/understanding-territories/

 

[Fishkeeper123]

Yeah I only plan on adding upper-middle fish.The larger tank’s conditions are needing to improve(not much tho) before being able to move tanks for the rams and BN. I’m testing every day to find out when the reading are low( generally 0 ammonia, 0.25-1 nitrite, around 10nitrate.) I’ll have a read about the chasing but I’m going to give them a chance together in the larger tank as the 20 gallon obviously isn’t great for them. Also I haven’t added any fish(apart from maybe assassin snails.) I haven’t added any 3 plants pots facing separate directions and will add the 2 small pieces of driftwood to the tank as well( they can just about hide in there.) I’m hoping I have a male who’s asserting dominance over a female rather than a male. I can’t sex them but the bully I think is a male but not to sure. What order should I add the fish/snails? In case you didn’t remember the danios are already in there currently so helping cycle the tank fully.

 

[Fishkeeper123]

I think i have lost a danio. Any ideas where he might be? I can’t find him,on the floor so don’t think he’s jumped(but there is a small gap to the wall but won’t be able to check there). I can’t find him in the tank either and he’s not in the pump either. Any ideas?

 

[Fishkeeper123]

I have 3 option and not sure what to choose,
• leave the fish in the separate tanks as it all is currently(still no sign of the danio they all seem healthy)
• move some fish/maybe all to the new tank and move the filter, could do substrate and the plants/driftwood
• I could move the danios back to the old tank and add something like prime to the tank but the tank has improved in nitrite but have still been doing water changes every few days.
Any advice would be great so I can make the best decision

 

[Naughts]

I think i have lost a danio. Any ideas where he might be? I can’t find him,on the floor so don’t think he’s jumped(but there is a small gap to the wall but won’t be able to check there). I can’t find him in the tank either and he’s not in the pump either. Any ideas?

By pump do you mean filter?
It may have jumped if there was a problem with water quality - what are the test results for the tank it was in?
Or it could have died and decomposed, again tests are useful. Post a video or photo of the remaining fish in case there is evidence of disease.

I have 3 option and not sure what to choose,
• leave the fish in the separate tanks as it all is currently(still no sign of the danio they all seem healthy)
• move some fish/maybe all to the new tank and move the filter, could do substrate and the plants/driftwood
• I could move the danios back to the old tank and add something like prime to the tank but the tank has improved in nitrite but have still been doing water changes every few days.
Any advice would be great so I can make the best decision

I'm unsure what fish are where but if you move an established filter at the same time as the fish, the cycle should soon stabilise. If you can add other things like substrate from the old tank it will be better. Monitor test results daily in the first week, longer if it hasn't stabilised.

 

[Fishkeeper123]

So I haven’t found the danio. The water hasnt been changed for a few days but nitrite was at 0.5-1, 0 ammonia, 10-nitrate. The garra was in the pump of the filter last time that’s what I meant. 180l has 7 danios and 1 missing. Have checked everywhere so have no idea what’s happened. 80l 2 Bolivian rams a Bristlenose pleco and 4 assassin snails.

 

[Fishkeeper123]

The substrate isn’t the same so will look weird but don’t mind to much as just want the best for the fish. The 80l has 0 ammonia nitrite and very little nitrate. Also I will have to move all the fish from the 80l at once as my only filters will go into my larger tank.

 

[Naughts]

The substrate isn’t the same so will look weird

Can you put it in a mesh bag for easy removal later?

 

[Naughts]

So I haven’t found the danio. The water hasnt been changed for a few days but nitrite was at 0.5-1, 0 ammonia, 10-nitrate.

Maybe you've got other threads that have addressed this but just in case, aquarium salt protects fish from nitrite. You can do water changes to dilute nitrite but the salt will lessen damage in between water changes.
This will help the danios, It's probably best not to move the other fish yet.

 

[Fishkeeper123]

What salt would I need? Do nitrite between 0.25-1 kill a fish? I’m yet to do a water change today so would do one before adding any fish if I did. As my smaller filter is coping well with the fish in the small tank I was wondering if it would help with nitrites and I want to move the fish to the tank soon as one ram looks happy and confident and the other often hiding near the driftwood and injured created another thread he’s really struggling.