Moral obligations, social obligations, and overstocking

[hurgerburger]

Hello all,

The other day I posted a thread about my friend's fish tank, which I thought was overstocked (and indeed is, very much so, as confirmed by the people here on this forum). It's a 10 gallon planted tank, and it has a ranchu goldfish, young dwarf Pakistani loach, a balloon molly (she is thinking about getting 1-2 more on Tuesday), and 2 young common plecos. A bit of a mess.

First little question: should she buy the 1-2 more mollies for company for the other one, or should I discourage that because of crowding?

Thing is, she's studying abroad next year, and I've agreed to take care of that tank for the school year along with a ~3 gallon tank with a pretty-much-blind big betta fish (dragon scale). I'm not super concerned about that tank, since it's super planted, filtered and heated, and I don't want the blind fish to have too much tank so it can find its food. My big issue is how to deal with the 10 gallon. I am willing to spend time and money on these fish since I wanna get more into the hobby and I want them to be happy (maybe 100-200 dollars? idk), but I am a college student, and it is my friend's tank (aka I cannot return her fish or do anything too crazy).

I was thinking of maybe getting another tank for the goldfish. 15 gallons is the max my college allows. Can I leave the rest in the 10-gallon? Or would a different tank configuration be better, like a long shallow tank? Or a clear bin (I could maybe drain it to 15 gallons for when the RA comes in, and have it higher other times)? Are there any economical options you guys might suggest too (aka is a bin ok/safe, and any brand/type suggestions)? Also I'm a little afraid of leaving my friend with two tanks; I will consult her first. Also, any suggestions if she vetoes the tank change idea? Any other suggestions would also be appreciated.

I'm guessing that the number/type of fish might increase or decrease before september just based on her history with fish. So I'll update with changes.

And random question: the groundwater here has had issues with manganese and iron. Will that be an issue? How do I deal with that? Brita filter (lol)? Any other groundwater stuff that I don't know about? I'm not used to groundwater with fish tanks, but I believe it's quite hard here since there's a green plaque on all the showerheads. I'll also have access to my own bathroom for water changes and stuff.

And finally: Any suggestions to have fun with the tank next year? I'm guessing she'll let me have lots of fun with it, so what would you do with the situation I've put myself in? Thank you so much in advance, looking forward to a fun year of fishkeeping.

 

[seangee]

No more mollies. There are several reasons but the most significant is they are prolific breeders so overstocking will become a much bigger problem.
Pakistani loach need a lot of space and get big (6"), usually a 4' tank is considered the minimum size. They are also sociable and need to be in groups of at least 5 - so definitely not recommend any more and finding a new home.
Loach and mollies need warm water - goldfish don't.
Mollies and goldfish need hard water, loach need soft water. You need to establish the actual parameters as green plaque is not conclusive.
Not familiar with fancy goldfish but I did find this:

You can technically keep a younger juvenile in a standard 10-gallon tank, but to support the health and well-being of an adult you’ll need at least 30 gallons. However, many experienced aquarists won’t go with a tank size smaller than 55 gallons for a single Ranchu if they have the space.

Sorry I know its not what you want to hear but significant intervention is needed here.

 

[seangee]

No more mollies. There are several reasons but the most significant is they are prolific breeders so overstocking will become a much bigger problem.
Pakistani loach need a lot of space and get big (6"), usually a 4' tank is considered the minimum size. They are also sociable and need to be in groups of at least 5 - so definitely not recommend any more and finding a new home.
Loach and mollies need warm water - goldfish don't.
Mollies and goldfish need hard water, loach need soft water. You need to establish the actual parameters as green plaque is not conclusive.
Not familiar with fancy goldfish but I did find this:

Sorry I know its not what you want to hear but significant intervention is needed here.

Edit: Forgot to say at some point the loach will shred the goldfish fins, AFAIK there is no such thing as a dwarf pakistani (yoyo) loach.

 

[GaryE]

Your friend's fish are going to die, probably badly. That's the harsh bottom line with overstocking and not doing homework on what fish you want. When I saw the original post, I wasn't outraged or shocked at what was in the tank. I was saddened.

Moral obligations? I believe that we owe all animals we keep the best lives they can have, just as we owe animals we don't keep the same. We're just their fellow animals in the big picture, and at the very least, we should try not to be cruel. That's a moral and social view and can be debated, but death can't be argued with and as the inhabitants in that tank grow, behaviour and pollution will kill them.

In a new 15, the goldfish is in for a short, miserable life. Technically, in an ideal world, the goldie could grow to close to the size of the tank. They can live 30 years, though 15 is more likely. In small tanks, a year is pretty long.

I would never keep mollies in a 10 gallon. They don't have room to move. I did it when I was a kid, and thought it was fine, but I have learned otherwise. So ideally, those 2 new ones get to take their chances elsewhere.

It sounds like your friend is enthusiastic in her ways, and you are in a no win. The solution to the stocking isn't going to float (rehoming all the fish and replacing them with 3 or 4 nano fish) if she insists on adding 2 more mollies. And you may get the blame when (not if) the fish she has dies. It's inevitable. They may make it to the point you take over, and you'll get to be the bearer of bad news.

The hard water would affect future purchases, after the tank wipes out. Stick to coastal species from limestone or karst regions. If you guys are at college, researching that should come naturally!

 

[Byron]

There is no way around this...these fish now are being treated inhumanely because they do not have sufficient space nor do they have sufficient numbers for the shoaling/schooling species. And they never willhave in a 10g tank. All of these poor fish should be rehomed (a store, another aquarist) ASAP. Tell your friend the present setup is cruel and inhumane.

 

[Aqua67]

……and, those common plecos grow to almost 2 feet long each, so those definitely need another home if they are going to live a good life.

 

[sharkweek178]

Common plecos grow to 15-22 inches. It's like I said in the other thread. This is a very bad situation for these fish. None of them are suited for living in a 10 gallon.
Try to imagine what life would be like living in a porta john that you can never leave. And it shrinks over time.
There are three options here...

• Getting a much bigger tank (which doesn't sound like an available option)
• Rehoming the fish
• Euthanizing the fish

And again, under no circumstances should they be released into the wild. That's the worst thing anyone can do. Common plecos have become an invasive species in some parts of the country because of fish keepers releasing them. Fancy goldfish and balloon mollies are specifically bred for home tanks and would die slow deaths in the wild.
I'm sorry that you and your friend are being put in a situation to make some difficult decisions.

 

[WhistlingBadger]

Yeah. Tough situation. Things like this are the reason I make a policy of refusing to take other people's mistakes and make them my responsibility. I intensely dislike no-win situations.

Others have covered the problems here more than adequately. I would just like to add that no one is judging your or your friend. I cringe to think of the horrors I inflicted on fish in my younger days just through lack of knowing better. But now you know, and there you go. If you can talk your friend into doing the humane thing and rehoming these fish, we can suggest some wonderful critters that can live long, contented lives in a ten gallon. But the fish you have now? Nope.

Sorry that isn't what you want to hear. Reality can be harsh sometimes. Good luck.

 

[ClownLurch]

We’ve all made stocking mistakes. Your friend is fortunate to have a source of info that isn’t interested in making money from her mistakes: this place. These fish need rejoining asap.

 

[sharkweek178]

We’ve all made stocking mistakes. Your friend is fortunate to have a source of info that isn’t interested in making money from her mistakes: this place. These fish need rejoining asap.

It actually angers me that fish or pet stores sell common plecos. Even most fishkeepers can't house a fully grown one. How many people have naively bought a common pleco not knowing what they were getting themselves into?