Molly Stocking

Austin Burgess

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So, I know we hold seriously fish really high level of accuracy when it comes to stocking.
I was searching a fascinating fish I saw someone else stock, the Sailfin Molly (Poecilia Velifera), and I wanted to know what y’all think about the screenshots at the bottom.

Obviously, like all livebearers, it says that it needs hard water, and other good stocking includes other livebearers.
But it says some cats, gourami, tetras, and barbs can handle that hard water as well?
Does anyone have ideas or recommendations as to what those might be?
I mean this is per Seriously Fish so it must be accurate.
@Byron
@Essjay
@Colin_T
 

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View attachment 146519So, I know we hold seriously fish really high level of accuracy when it comes to stocking.
I was searching a fascinating fish I saw someone else stock, the Sailfin Molly (Poecilia Velifera), and I wanted to know what y’all think about the screenshots at the bottom.

Obviously, like all livebearers, it says that it needs hard water, and other good stocking includes other livebearers.
But it says some cats, gourami, tetras, and barbs can handle that hard water as well?
Does anyone have ideas or recommendations as to what those might be?
I mean this is per Seriously Fish so it must be accurate.
@Byron
@Essjay
@Colin_T
I know that some tetras (I forget which ones) as well as cories are hard water... I dont know about the barbs or gouramis but it could very well be possible.
 
The actual water parameters are the first important factor. The SF ranges were not cited in the photo attachments, but they are GH 15-35 dH, pH 7 to 8.5, and temperature 72-82F/22-28C. Your options for tankmates side from other livebearers or fish requiring hard water would be more if the parameters are at the lower end of the GH and pH ranges given, than they would if the params are at the higher end.

As a general observation, I do not recommend housing soft water species with fish requiring much harder water. This is a generality, but it does always work. When you get into the issue of finding "soft" water species that will (hopefully) be suitable in somewhat harder water, there are options plus some level of disagreement among aquarists. Taking "gourami" for example, the Honey Gourami would likely fare better in moderately hard water, whereas the Chocolate Gourami would not.

As I was typing, post #2 appeared, mentioning cories. There are no "hard water" cory species, but there are a few that can manage in moderately hard water. Corydoras aeneus is one, as it is native to the island of Trinidad which (going from memory here, I may be mixing things up) has a basic pH though not hard water in terms of GH. Tetras like Pristella maxillaris will do well in moderately hard water with a basic pH in the 7's. This species occurs in such water in a few parts of its range.
 
There are no "hard water" cory species, but there are a few that can manage in moderately hard water.
Ah ok, that mustve gone into my brain as hard water cories
 
The actual water parameters are the first important factor. The SF ranges were not cited in the photo attachments, but they are GH 15-35 dH, pH 7 to 8.5, and temperature 72-82F/22-28C. Your options for tankmates side from other livebearers or fish requiring hard water would be more if the parameters are at the lower end of the GH and pH ranges given, than they would if the params are at the higher end.

As a general observation, I do not recommend housing soft water species with fish requiring much harder water. This is a generality, but it does always work. When you get into the issue of finding "soft" water species that will (hopefully) be suitable in somewhat harder water, there are options plus some level of disagreement among aquarists. Taking "gourami" for example, the Honey Gourami would likely fare better in moderately hard water, whereas the Chocolate Gourami would not.

As I was typing, post #2 appeared, mentioning cories. There are no "hard water" cory species, but there are a few that can manage in moderately hard water. Corydoras aeneus is one, as it is native to the island of Trinidad which (going from memory here, I may be mixing things up) has a basic pH though not hard water in terms of GH. Tetras like Pristella maxillaris will do well in moderately hard water with a basic pH in the 7's. This species occurs in such water in a few parts of its range.
This is along the lines of what I was thinking as I made the post.

And I figured it was generally impossible to pair livebearers with other fish from the region since these livebearers are apparently only found in hard water that caters to their biological processes.

I wonder what Seriously Fish was eluding to as species besides livebearers that could co-exist well without being stressed tho.
 
This is along the lines of what I was thinking as I made the post.

And I figured it was generally impossible to pair livebearers with other fish from the region since these livebearers are apparently only found in hard water that caters to their biological processes.

I wonder what Seriously Fish was eluding to as species besides livebearers that could co-exist well without being stressed tho.

As I said, it depends upon the actual GH/pH. There are "soft" water species that seem to manage in somewhat harder water than they prefer. Listing every such species for every profile would be quite a task, requiring a breakdown of GH degree by degree, and that is just not feasible.

BTW, "other fish from the region" needs some explaining. Livebearers naturally occur in Mexico, Central America, the southern US, parts of norther SA, and Caribbean islands. Most of the other fish from South America that have evolved in soft and very soft water do not occur in these same areas. I'm being very general, there are always exceptions like those I mentioned in my last post here. There are however other moderately-hard water fish like some of the Rainbowfishes from Australasia.
 
As I said, it depends upon the actual GH/pH. There are "soft" water species that seem to manage in somewhat harder water than they prefer. Listing every such species for every profile would be quite a task, requiring a breakdown of GH degree by degree, and that is just not feasible.

BTW, "other fish from the region" needs some explaining. Livebearers naturally occur in Mexico, Central America, the southern US, parts of norther SA, and Caribbean islands. Most of the other fish from South America that have evolved in soft and very soft water do not occur in these same areas. I'm being very general, there are always exceptions like those I mentioned in my last post here. There are however other moderately-hard water fish like some of the Rainbowfishes from Australasia.
Do you think there are tetras and such that come from the same waters as the Mollies? With the same GH/PH
 
I mean this is per Seriously Fish so it must be accurate.
@Byron
Well, Seriously Fish is mostly accurate. So, there are also some incorrect information overthere. But in general, it's one of the better sites.
 
Do you think there are tetras and such that come from the same waters as the Mollies? With the same GH/PH

Again being general--no, there are no common tetras in the same waters. I am going from memory here, but I cannot recall any. Not that I know every species of characin and its location, but they do not inhabit the same habitats.

Here's a bit of history.

The ancestor of all modern Characiformes appeared when the two southern continents of Africa and South America were part of the supercontinent called Gondwana [Lundberg 1993; Ortí and Meyer 1997]. The breakup of the two continents allowed the characins in what became South America to take full advantage of the potential [=empty or not fully-exploited] ecological niches, and the characids underwent explosive radiation unlike any other in all the vertebrates except for the marsupials in Australia. There was no opportunity for these fishes to move into the separate Central/North American continent, since there was (and still is) no connecting freshwater courses.

What follows will contradict my previous comments, I did say I was being very general, but now we are getting into more substantive issues.

The Family Poeciliidae is known as livebearers, and aquarists tend to think of them as occurring chiefly in Mexico and Central America, but they actually extend from SE United States down into northern Argentina. The majority of species are either true live-bearing species [viviparous] or have internal fertilization with the eggs hatching before being laid so that the female produces live young [ovoviviparous]. Except for one genus, all the American species are live bearing. But there are also some egg scattering species with external fertilization, and these all occur in Africa. The distribution of the Subfamily in Africa and America suggests that the Poeciliidae pre-date the separation of Africa and South America that occurred during the early Cretaceous period some 130 million years ago. Live bearing subsequently evolved in the American species.

I have personally never come across any of the South American livebearing species, except for Poecilia (Acanthophacelus) wingei, common name Endler's Livebearer, which occurs in northeast Venezuela, endemic to Campoma and Buena Vista coastal lagoons. The source for the type specimens is a warm freshwater lake with hard, alkaline water on the Paria Peninsula. The species is feared to be extinct in the habitat lake in which it was discovered due to pollution from garbage. The common name "Endler's Guppy" honours John Endler who "discovered" the species in 1975, although it was actually first discovered in 1937 by Franklin Bond. A second possible site was mentioned by Dr. Endler but he was unable to find it. Schories et al. (2009) document this species occurring in the Cumana region.

It was not until 2005 that the species was scientifically described as a distinct species by F.N. Poeser, M. Kempkes & I.J.H. Isbrucker. Poeser et al. (2005) proposed re-establishing the genus name Acanthophacelus, originally erected by Eigenmann in 1907 and subsequently deemed a synonym for Poecilia, as a sub-genus of Poecilia. Schories et al. (2009) have followed this provisional sub-classification for the (now) three guppy species on the basis of generic differences from the other species in the subfamily.

@emeraldking is much more up on this family than I am, and he may be able to mention other SA species. They are certainly not the standard fish we see in the hobby, so far as I know anyway.
 
Well, I have owned and I still do own livebearers from Central and South America. A serious number of them are on my website: www.emeraldking-aquatics.com.

Btw, Michael Kempkes, Fred Poeser and I met up again this past weekend. We see eachother on a regular basis. And I've purchased some new assets of SA livebearers this past saturday.
 

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