Mixing a betta with guppies

[ShaylaM]

Hello All, I've got a 10 gallon tank that's heavily planted with 5 guppies in it and today I added a betta, I feel so bad for them in the store living in a 1 inch cube Anyhow I did some research and what I could come up with was that it just depends on the attitude of the betta. I figured my tank being heavily planted and my guppies aren't of bright colour, Theres a good chance it could work. I fed the guppies before I put him in the tank and it seemed to have gone well so far however I have noticed the guppies are looking a little stressed and have been doing quite a bit of glass surfing, He hasn't chased any of them, shown any signs of aggression or even interest in the guppies. he is just swimming around his new enclosure minding his business, the guppies come up to him and are shocked when he turns in their direction, they seem to be stressing themselves out ahah, They are even just getting stressed when one of their own come near them now. Is this just stress from the addition of a new tank mate or something more sinister from the betta? Anyone got experience the addition of a betta? I will be home pretty much all weekend and today to be able to keep a close eye on them but the last thing I want is to wake up in the morning to dead guppies

 

[Essjay]

Guppies are usually considered to be poor tank mates for bettas because male guppies have long colourful fins and male bettas mistake them for other male bettas.

Keep an eye on things and have a back up plan ready. In the very short term, that can be one of those boxes or nets for fry - with a cover as bettas can jump. But that's just for a few days if things go wrong. If it does happen, you'll need a separate tank for the betta.

 

[NannaLou]

Hello All, I've got a 10 gallon tank that's heavily planted with 5 guppies in it and today I added a betta, I feel so bad for them in the store living in a 1 inch cube Anyhow I did some research and what I could come up with was that it just depends on the attitude of the betta. I figured my tank being heavily planted and my guppies aren't of bright colour, Theres a good chance it could work. I fed the guppies before I put him in the tank and it seemed to have gone well so far however I have noticed the guppies are looking a little stressed and have been doing quite a bit of glass surfing, He hasn't chased any of them, shown any signs of aggression or even interest in the guppies. he is just swimming around his new enclosure minding his business, the guppies come up to him and are shocked when he turns in their direction, they seem to be stressing themselves out ahah, They are even just getting stressed when one of their own come near them now. Is this just stress from the addition of a new tank mate or something more sinister from the betta? Anyone got experience the addition of a betta? I will be home pretty much all weekend and today to be able to keep a close eye on them but the last thing I want is to wake up in the morning to dead guppies

Other than the usual “Betta are solitary fish” by keep buying fish from shops that sell them from ‘1 inch cubes’ surely just provides a retail demand that perpetuates the practice..?

 

[ShaylaM]

Other than the usual “Betta are solitary fish” by keep buying fish from shops that sell them from ‘1 inch cubes’ surely just provides a retail demand that perpetuates the practice..?

Aright sorry. I'll flush him down the toilet instead.

 

[NannaLou]

Aright sorry. I'll flush him down the toilet instead.

very mature debating style!

 

[Byron]

This issue of keeping a male Betta in a community tank comes up regularly. It is not advisable, and doing it risks the fish, both the Betta and the other fish (guppies or whatever, it doesn't matter). There are guidelines we can follow with fish, so do your research and assume the fish you acquire will be "normal" for the species in those conditions, rather than hope it will work out as the exception. The latter really is not fair to the fish, and stress can occur without we aquarists even seeing it--until it is too late. I wrote the article below a while back, and it should explain things.

Betta splendens is a solitary fish

Betta splendens seems to live solitary in its natural habitat which is still and sluggish waters, including rice paddies, swamps, roadside ditches, streams and ponds. Such an environment is not conducive to fish that require oxygenated waters so one can expect few if any non-anabantid species to live in such habitats. During the dry season, most bettas are able to bury themselves in the bottom of their dried up habitat. There, they can live in moist cavities until water once again fills the depression during a rainy period. The fish can survive even if thick, clay mud is all that is left of the water. They do not survive total drying out of the bottom (Vierke 1988). There are very few fish species, and none that are found in the same habitats, that can manage life in such conditions, which is further evidence that the B. splendens is most likely a solitary species.

All anabantids are territorial; male bettas instinctively fight each other in defending their territory. Selective breeding over many years has produced fish with a heightened sense of territory defense, which explains the common name of Siamese Fighting Fish. Fish fights for money is a "sport," if you want to use the term for such animal cruelty. This means the bettas we see in stores have an even greater propensity to literally kill each other given the chance. For a fish that instinctively lives alone, and believes it must defend its territory to survive--both traits that are programmed into the species' DNA--this aggressiveness is likely to extend to any fish that dares enter the betta's territory, which in most cases will be the tank space. And forcing the fish to "live" under such conditions is frankly inhumane.

Individual fish within a species do not always adhere to the "norm" for the species; this is true of all animals, including humans. But with fish, responsible aquarists should research the fish's behaviours, traits, and requirements, and then aim to provide accordingly. "Expectations" are as I said above programmed into the species' DNA, and we are not going to change them just because we may want to have a betta in the tank with "x" fish species. Sometimes the betta seems to co-operate with our experiment, but in many of these situations it may not last for long, eventually if not immediately. Fish that do succumb are likely being severely stressed, unseen to the aquarist until it is too late.

If the betta does not first attack the intruders, the intruders may go after the betta. It is a two-way street, and in either situation it is the betta that loses in the end. Severe stress causing increased aggression, or conversely severe withdrawal from being targeted by the other fish. And physical aggression is not the only concern; fish release pheromones and allomones, chemical communication signals that other fish read, and these can promote aggression that will in time weaken the fish to the point of death. There is no reason to risk the fish in one's attempt to prove scientific understanding wrong.

References:

Betta splendens profile on Seriously Fish.com

Hargrove, M. (1999), The Betta: an Owner's Guide to a Happy Healthy Fish, Howell Book House.

Kottelat, M. (2013) "The fishes of the inland waters of southeast Asia: a catalogue and core bibliography of the fishes known to occur in freshwaters, mangroves and estuaries," Raffles Bulletin of Zoology, Supplement No. 27, pp. 1-663.

Tan, H. H. and P. K. L. Ng (2005), "The fighting fishes (Teleostei: Osphronemidae: genus Betta) of Singapore, Malaysia and Brunei," Raffles Bulletin of Zoology, Supplement No. 13, pp. 43-99.

Tan, H. H. and P. K. L. Ng (2005), "The labyrinth fishes (Teleostei: Anabanatoidei, Channoidei) of Sumatra, Indonesia," Raffles Bulletin of Zoology, Supplement No. 13, pp. 115-138.

Vierke, J. (1988), Bettas, Gouramis, and Other Anabantoids, T.F.H. Publication, Inc.

 

[NannaLou]

@Byron - thank for always explaining this so well.

I was very disappointed today to find my local Maidenhead Aquatics had “upgraded” their Betta housing. They now have a rack of about 25 tiny, not much larger than the fish are long tanks . I challenged them on the size of the tanks and they said they had plenty of fresh water circulating and it was only a short term holding solution. When questioned a bit further that short term could be 4-6 weeks. And his parting comment was ‘it’s better than the breeders keep them in’..

 

[Slaphppy7]

Aright sorry. I'll flush him down the toilet instead.

Seriously? I hope you are kidding, that is cruel and inhumane...bring it back to the shop

 

[Sgooosh]

1. they are solitary
2. soft water and hard water.
short answer: no
(sell the betta, more worth it goin down the drain)

 

[ShaylaM]

Seriously? I hope you are kidding, that is cruel and inhumane...bring it back to the shop

Oh course I'm joking

 

[FishkeeperDiscoWostit]

I really wouldn't risk the health of your guppies, even if he turns out to be a 'peaceful' betta the guppies will still probably be stressed. The size of the betta tanks in some fish shops is horrific, I completely agree with you. In my opinion the best thing you can do in the future is - if it is at all possible - don't use that store anymore. One of my LFSs puts betta in with other compatible fish so that they have more space and get used to living with other fish too, which seems like a better option. There should definitely be some kind of rule stopping fish shops using such tiny tanks, I know that they are only holding tanks but they are just ridiculous.

 

[Myraan]

In my mind, the requirement to be solo is the advantage of male Betta, it's the obvious answer of what to do with a 5 gallon tank if you don't want shrimp. (And you could say the same of shrimp if you don't fancy a Betta).