Mentoring For Newbies

[SLC Flyfishing]

I'd just like to add my opinion, as a newcomer (recently) and someone who is also just learning about Marine, so the 'newbie' feeling is fresh in my mind.

Firstly, when people come here, there are alot of people who jump on them, because I'd bet 80% of them are already doing something wrong with their fish. They (we) know no better, trusting pet stores etc and then we decide to look more into the hobby and woah!

Secondly, when I decided to start researching Marine, I went to the pinned topics, and what happens is... you start reading a sentence, and then you come across something you have no clue about... and you think, ok... lets just keep reading... but then something else, and something else.. until you're reading, and reading, and nothing makes sense. It makes sense to the writer, because they know what they're talking about. SO... you go off and you make a post in your words, hoping someone will answer your question without all the overwhelming confusing mass of info. About 3 weeks ago, I began reading Matthew's thread on starting a marine tank... and afterwards I told my hubby there was no way in hell I was even going to attempt it, far far far too complicated!! Now, 3 weeks of constant research, I sat and told my mum yesterday all about how to set up a marine tank, and I knew (to a point) what I was talking about... Matthew's thread NOW makes sense, but not because of the info in this forum.... more because I searched google for things I ddin't understand and made posts asking questions to fill in the gaps. Because no matter how much someone reads, there are ALWAYS GAPS.

I believe the pinned topics should be there, they are fantastic, but I don't think anyone should get annoyed if a newbie chooses to post a question instead of searching through the topics.

This is a forum, I know I am echoing stuff already said, but forums are for people to post and help... no? You don't have to help people, you don't have to go into the beginners section, or answer repetitive posts... because someone who wants to help will. (Thank God)

I think mentors would be a SUPERB idea, I have first dibs on Chac so I know I'll be ok. But joking aside, it would be great to have someone you know wants to help you, who you can just ask all those silly questions to. Please try to remember, to people just starting out, the whole fishkeeping thing, water stats, stocking, compatibility etc is VERY CONFUSING... just try to think of it like this..... if they are here, they WANT to do it better, so give people a chance!

Very very well said!
So when is this getting going? I'll be the first in line to help with brackish setups!

SLC

 

[Torrean]

I always thought pinns were more of a resource for the more experienced to refer the newbies to. I mean really if you just started keeping fish and saw a pinned topic called fishless cycling would that mean anything to you? So you ask a question about it and some explains what it is and links you to the pin.

 

[QuotheRaven]

Mentors would be superb for newbies it would increase the amount of people on the forum as newbies would be more likely to stay which is a plus but it would mean those newbies would be more likely to keep up their fish keeping. I support the idea

 

[TammyLiz]

I think I've already done this a little in the beginner section. I just picked a couple of threads with 0 replys, answered all their questions, and kept coming back to answer other questions as they came up. Is this the kind of thing you're talking about? How are you planning on organizing it? I can project a few problems that might come with having it too organized, aka having a system for matching old people with new people and having them PM each other:

-Some weekends/weeks/months I have time and others I don't, so I don't know if I would sign up to be a mentor for fear I wouldn't have time for them when they needed me, if I was the only person their questions were directed at.

-As far as PMs go, I think its kind of nice to have it on the open forum because then if I'm giving bad advice unknowingly, someone else can butt in and say "wait, she's wrong", or good advice someone can say "yes, listen to her". I've been keeping fish for almost a decade so I mostly know what I'm talking about but I don't know everything and doubt there is anyone who does.

-Usually, newbies wouldn't be able to tell you what type of mentor they need, because they seldom know enough to even know what they need help with. A lot of first posts go something like "this is what I've done, is that OK?" and the first response has to be "this is what you should have done, and here's how you can fix it". Its nice to be able to just go in and pick and thread and help out, because then I can be sure I know something about the subject they need the most help in, even though they don't know where they need help.

I like the idea of mentoring new people, that is really what the forum is all about. Some people have more information to share than others, and some enjoy sharing it because its always sad to see an ignorant fishkeeper. I think any program that would put any structure to it could be good if it wasn't too stiff. Such as the fact that if you go into emergencies talking about a disease, you can be pretty sure wilder is going to be helping you out. Nobody told her to do that, right? I think she just likes to for the most part.

On another note, I think the comment about pinned topics and such being disorganized was a very good point. I've been here on TFF for a while and I agree, it can be better to search google, because there are pins here and there and everywhere, and most of them would be more helpful if combined into a single, all inclusive article, possibly written by a long-standing member who can accurately convey the opinion and experience of the majority of the people here. Arrange them in a way that makes sense instead of being willy nilly all over the place and it could be a help for people who are trying to help newbies. It mainly just needs some reorganization. Its all there but hard to find, even for me.

 

[Cheffi]

Well guys, I was surprised to see these last few posts and the positive responses.

The mod that I contacted put forward a proposal from me with some of your idea's on the mod's forum and the response was negative!!!

Now in my mind that is like saying to someone....would you like me to come and do your housework for you and the reply is No...I haven't got time to do it myself but I don't want your help. Forum's are only around because of the members..no members no forum, well an active one anyhow. From reading through this thread I'd say it got a very very positive response but computer says no.

Sorry everyone I did try.

I think I've already done this a little in the beginner section. I just picked a couple of threads with 0 replys, answered all their questions, and kept coming back to answer other questions as they came up. Is this the kind of thing you're talking about? How are you planning on organizing it? I can project a few problems that might come with having it too organized, aka having a system for matching old people with new people and having them PM each other:

-Some weekends/weeks/months I have time and others I don't, so I don't know if I would sign up to be a mentor for fear I wouldn't have time for them when they needed me, if I was the only person their questions were directed at.

-As far as PMs go, I think its kind of nice to have it on the open forum because then if I'm giving bad advice unknowingly, someone else can butt in and say "wait, she's wrong", or good advice someone can say "yes, listen to her". I've been keeping fish for almost a decade so I mostly know what I'm talking about but I don't know everything and doubt there is anyone who does.

-Usually, newbies wouldn't be able to tell you what type of mentor they need, because they seldom know enough to even know what they need help with. A lot of first posts go something like "this is what I've done, is that OK?" and the first response has to be "this is what you should have done, and here's how you can fix it". Its nice to be able to just go in and pick and thread and help out, because then I can be sure I know something about the subject they need the most help in, even though they don't know where they need help.

I like the idea of mentoring new people, that is really what the forum is all about. Some people have more information to share than others, and some enjoy sharing it because its always sad to see an ignorant fishkeeper. I think any program that would put any structure to it could be good if it wasn't too stiff. Such as the fact that if you go into emergencies talking about a disease, you can be pretty sure wilder is going to be helping you out. Nobody told her to do that, right? I think she just likes to for the most part.

On another note, I think the comment about pinned topics and such being disorganized was a very good point. I've been here on TFF for a while and I agree, it can be better to search google, because there are pins here and there and everywhere, and most of them would be more helpful if combined into a single, all inclusive article, possibly written by a long-standing member who can accurately convey the opinion and experience of the majority of the people here. Arrange them in a way that makes sense instead of being willy nilly all over the place and it could be a help for people who are trying to help newbies. It mainly just needs some reorganization. Its all there but hard to find, even for me.

Some really good and valid points put across Tammy see my previous post though.

 

[voo]

You dont need to give up on it totally though. You could add something to your signature to say you are a mentor, pm me for help with blah blah... maybe even make an image like they use for the mature media donors ?

 

[Cheffi]

You dont need to give up on it totally though. You could add something to your signature to say you are a mentor, pm me for help with blah blah... maybe even make an image like they use for the mature media donors ?

Yes voo that is what the mod suggested but I would feel a bit like the lone voice singing in the darkness. Also I don't want to be the one to be seen pouncing on the newbies. However I would say that one of the things that everyone seems to think is missing are some really simple pinned topics on varying subjects. Bit like windows for dummies kind of thing. Things we take for granted others may not be able to comprehend. Some members are very very young and might not understand adult terminology and maybe their parents are not interested and have told them to just get on with it.

As for the image I'll have to approach my mate nicksw he did the last one. I wonder if it would be against the rules if those who wanted the sig just used it to inform they would be happy to be pm'd by newbies wanting advice?

 

[jollysue]

How about something a little less formal, a list of people willing to be mentor-like (to be determined by admin) and a sign-up of newbies, et al., that would like to be paired?

As I said before, it worked for me that some certain people just responded to my posts, we forged a relationship, and I continue to contact them. I think people pick each other. I know for some reason some new people will pm me, and some hobbiests pm'd me when I was new. Some would rather just jump in (like I did recently in the Africans forum) and others like a structure.

By the way one of the things that the people I attached to as a newbie did for me was to give me some one to talk to when "Why are they being mean to me?" happened.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

Yeah i agree with the points about people not always being here and people picking they're own mentors.

I know from both side's that people tend to just find each other. I've a few newbies who've pm'd me after I've replied to they're threads and I've helped them out. Also with just starting out on marine's I know you get someone who knows they're stuff and is interested in your post and build up a relationship with them so you know you can pm them and ask questions.

I do think just putting something in your sig saying pm me if you want advise is a good idea. You can then also put down what you feel your areas of expertise are.

I've also noticed a few people have just put helpful links in they're sig's... like the one to the fishless cycling pinned topic. If a load of people who are all active in the beginner section's have links like that in they're sig's it's easy for newbie's to find the good pin's.

Also I think a review of all the pin's is a good idea..... big laborious task for someone though

 

[jollysue]

A big YES! to someone taking on the pinned topics. Some stuff may even be outdated. I know that the pins I read on the ich cycle are totally refuted now. I vote for The_Wolf maybe.

I also know there are differences in handling desease. Some don't use meds and are totally sold on the clean water correctly stocked tank method. They are old timers mostly that really know their stuff. I have not done well myself with the meds. Too many resistant and various strains of bacteria. Putting in a UV as soon as I can figure it out

Well you'll figure out something. I say KISS works best longest.

I think some of the complaints that newbies have about their treatment is sometimes due to the very young adolecsents that are quite blunt at times in their opinions.

 

[Cheffi]

How about something a little less formal, a list of people willing to be mentor-like (to be determined by admin) and a sign-up of newbies, et al., that would like to be paired?

See my previous post...we've had a negative

As I said before, it worked for me that some certain people just responded to my posts, we forged a relationship, and I continue to contact them. I think people pick each other. I know for some reason some new people will pm me, and some hobbiests pm'd me when I was new. Some would rather just jump in (like I did recently in the Africans forum) and others like a structure.

That's because of your outgoing personality. Not everyone is like you, out and out friendly and bold, some people are shrinking violets.

By the way one of the things that the people I attached to as a newbie did for me was to give me some one to talk to when "Why are they being mean to me?" happened.

Good points sue, we all need a shoulder to cry on sometimes.

 

[TammyLiz]

I think some of the complaints that newbies have about their treatment is sometimes due to the very young adolecsents that are quite blunt at times in their opinions.

This statement looks very true to me.

Actually, putting a "mentor" label on them could make them worse. Young people love titles and they'd probably flock to be mentors and then be even worse about it.

I have nothing against young people, BTW. I used to be one and was the kind that mostly needed to just shut up. I knew what I was talking about but had no tact. I think its not in them yet. Some adults never get it, either. I hope I'm not one of those...I think it would be hard to self-diagnose.

 

[jollysue]

Yes, TammyLiz, and the complaint that often newbie posts are ignored for the posts of the older/more well known members is also down to some of that. In Bettas, if wuv posts a thread, EVERYONE flocks to it, including the new members. It is in the human nature to look for attention and to try to please the power (best quick word I could think of.) A mod gets attention. It is also of course natural to pay attention to people you recognize and like to interact with. Nevertheless, I think most everyone tries to give some attention to all the posts and to be fair.

 

[Torrean]

I think the best answer is probably people acting on there own. Go into newbie and welcome people to the forum, tell them that if they have any questions about where to put a post or how the forum works to feel free to PM... Also going into beginners and helping people out (which includes referring them to pins. Putting helpful links in sigs, etc etc...
That way there are no power trips about being a mentor and this place gets friendlier. Now organizing a group of people to do this might be a good idea, They don't need any labels but having a group of people that you are familiar with there experience can be very helpfull when you aren't sure that your answer is correct. I remember a couple instances where I got in over my head and a girl needed help right then, I PM'd a couple people that I had gotten advice from in the past (Miagi, Tokis, just to name the first to pop into my mind) and I knew were experienced with the situation. We cleared up the situation that night. A list of specialties might be a good idea.

I think i may be rambling...it's bedtime=)

 

[vancouver]

Isn't all the newbie type stuff in pinned topics?