Mbuna tank sudden pH drop

[Byron]

So looking back and moving forward, it doesn't hurt to keep some limestone rocks or any other buffering stuff in the tank and or adding a bit of baking soda with water changes. I have been relying on my tap water alone being a bit high on pH.

The limestone items, fine. But no on using baking soda on-going. This is not providing what the fish must have, calcium and magnesium dissolved in the water so they can use it to function properly.

You really must ascertain the GH/KH of the tap water, and find out just what they are adding.

 

[gilpi]

I appreciate your reply however, to me this is confusing as many rift lake fishkeepers add a mixture of baking soda, Epsom salt and salt as part of their maintenance.

 

[Colin_T]

You can buy Rift Lake mineral salts and add them to the water to increase the hardness (GH & KH) and pH. However, if you have hard water coming from the tap, you probably won't need it. If you can find out the GH, KH and pH of your water supply, it will tell us if you need to add anything. The pH dropping would suggest you do but we like to know the actual numbers so we can see how good or bad it is.

If you contact your water supply company by phone or internet, they should be able to tell you the GH (general hardness), KH (carbonate hardness) and pH of the water they supply to your neighbourhood houses.

If you can't get it from the water company, take a glass full of tap water to a pet shop and ask them to test it for you. Write the results down in numbers when they do the tests. You should also find out what the test results are measured in (eg: ppm, dGH, or something else).

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If you have soft water (low mineral content), then you can add Epsom salts and other minerals to increase the GH and KH. However, you need to know what the GH and KH are before and after you add the mineral salts so you don't cause problems to the fish by adding too much sodium, or too much magnesium, etc.

This is the Rift Lake water conditioner I used. I also had limestone rocks in the tank.

Aquasonic Riftlake Water Conditioner 500g - Australian Made

Shop The Tech Den Australia for a wide selection of aquarium products including Aquasonic Riftlake Water Conditioner 500g. Enjoy fast flat rate shipping. Orders ship in 1-2 days..

www.thetechden.com.au

 

[Byron]

I appreciate your reply however, to me this is confusing as many rift lake fishkeepers add a mixture of baking soda, Epsom salt and salt as part of their maintenance.

And just how "healthy" are their fish? Salt should never be added to a tank with any freshwater fish species, except as a treatment for a specific disease, which means short-term use. Prolonged salt in the water impacts the physiology of freshwater fish because they have evolved not to need it. I have an article on the detriments of salt online, here is a link to one site managed by professional biologists that endorses it:

Salt FW Aq Art Hosking

Edit. @Colin_T posted as I was typing, and I concur with his post entirely.

 

[AmyKieran]

I appreciate your reply however, to me this is confusing as many rift lake fishkeepers add a mixture of baking soda, Epsom salt and salt as part of their maintenance.

Ide reccomend seachems Malawi/Victoria buffer for ph and kh and also cichlid lake salt for gh. Gives all the minerals they need.

You may need the tanginyaka buffer if you keep fish from that region

 

[gilpi]

And just how "healthy" are their fish? Salt should never be added to a tank with any freshwater fish species, except as a treatment for a specific disease, which means short-term use. Prolonged salt in the water impacts the physiology of freshwater fish because they have evolved not to need it. I have an article on the detriments of salt online, here is a link to one site managed by professional biologists that endorses it:

Salt FW Aq Art Hosking

Edit. @Colin_T posted as I was typing, and I concur with his post entirely.

I agree, I was referring to reef/lake salts. I never added nor believed in adding any salt or buffers to a tank. Do I want to use any of these no, but does it work in certain cases? Reason I never added anything is that for years I didn't have to, but if my tap water is going to fluctuate, will it help or hurt my fish by adding a small amount with my water changes? And what about those that have been adding either DIY buffers containing baking soda as one of the ingredients or the store bought just so they don't have sudden pH drop offs as I have gotten now a couple of times?

 

[StevenF]

I appreciate your reply however, to me this is confusing as many rift lake fishkeepers add a mixture of baking soda, Epsom salt and salt as part of their maintenance.

There are 2 reasons to use a baking soda (sodium carbonate) or potassium carbonate:

• to increase the carbonate level to match the KH of their natural environment.
• to increase PH of the water.

This is problematic in that fish need a little of both sodium and potassium to be healthy. now most KH boosting products you can purchase have potassium carbonate. others use sodium bicarbonate because it is cheaper. but using either of these results in either a lot of sodium or a lot of potassium. Both are known to be lethal to humans and all animals including fish. Using these product is risky because it can be bad for th health of the fish.

Additionally in most steams and water sodium or potassium carbonate normally not found. Normally you only find sodium or potassium chloride, with a little bromide or iodine. In nature most KH comes from calcium or magnesium carbonate. People don't normally add calcium and magnesium carbonate because they don't dissolve easily in water.

Note Epsom salt is Magneisum sulfate. All of the compounds I have list and most ingredient in fertilizers are by definition Salts. But to most people salt means sodium chloride. Also note most people believe sodium is harmful to plants. It is only harmful at extremely high levels that typically make soil rock hard. Most tap water has elevated levels of tap water. 40 part per million or more of sodium in tap water is not unusual.

 

[Byron]

I agree with the above. The bottom line here is the GH and KH of your source water, and you really must find this out. It is the starting point for what needs to be added, if anything. Once you have the GH and KH at the higher levels needed for rift lake fish, the pH will follow suit and end of problem. If the GH/KH need increasing, rift lake salts is one way. Years ago I had zero GH/KH and used dolomite sand. The fish from these lakes absolutely must have a moderately hard or harder GH; they need the calcium and magnesium.

 

[gilpi]

So providing the tap water had ideal pH KH and GH, are rift lake salts, buffers or any other minerals not needed for the health of African cichlids?

 

[Byron]

So providing the tap water had ideal pH KH and GH, are rift lake salts, buffers or any other minerals not needed for the health of African cichlids?

Correct. And on a very general note, adding any substance to a fish tank is to be avoided unless it is absolutely essential for the well being of the fish. We use conditioners because we need to dechlorinate or neutralize chlorine/chloramine. If you have usable source water and select fish suited to those parameters, nothing else is needed and you will without question have healthier fish. Fish continually "drink" by taking in water via osmosis; any substance dissolved in the water that is able to diffuse across the cell membranes enters the fish. This is how hard water fish assimilate the calcium and magnesium from the water. Soft water fish do not need this, and they have an opposite problem in harder water; the calcium blocks internal organs like the kidneys, and the fish weakens and dies in time.

 

[itiwhetu]

I am interested in why the idea of using limestone as the substrate in this tank isn't considered. On the west coast of New Zealand, I know of several African Cichlid tanks that use Limestone and rainwater. With the correct water changes it is an amazingly easy way to keep Africans.

 

[Byron]

I am interested in why the idea of using limestone as the substrate in this tank isn't considered. On the west coast of New Zealand, I know of several African Cichlid tanks that use Limestone and rainwater. With the correct water changes it is an amazingly easy way to keep Africans.

I almost always suggest a calcareous sand substrate as one of two methods, the other being the rift lake mineral salt preparations [note, this is not the same as so-called buffering additives which I will never use], so I agree with you. Back in the 1980's I had mollies in one tank and rift lake cichlids in another, with zero GH/KH water with a pH below 5 (out of the tap), and substrates composed of dolomite were successful.

 

[gilpi]

For those with limestone, coral or aragonite in their tanks and have low pH, very soft tap water, how do you handle water changes? I'm assuming a 1/3 to 1/2 of the tank water change would take a while for the water to come up to the desired pH.

 

[itiwhetu]

For those with limestone, coral or aragonite in their tanks and have low pH, very soft tap water, how do you handle water changes? I'm assuming a 1/3 to 1/2 of the tank water change would take a while for the water to come up to the desired pH.

25% is fine.

 

[malfunction]

For those with limestone, coral or aragonite in their tanks and have low pH, very soft tap water, how do you handle water changes? I'm assuming a 1/3 to 1/2 of the tank water change would take a while for the water to come up to the desired pH.

I’m in this exact position. Since moving to Scotland, I have neutral ph, but very low KH and GH. It’s easier to to handle than you’d think. I use an aragonite based substrate (Caribsea African cichlid sand) and use both seachem Malawi buffer and cichlid lake salt with every water change. I change around 50-70% of my water each week and have no issues with fluctuating pH, GH or KH.