Male Peacock Gudgeon hiding or dead?

[Rocky998]

As I said I have dragon stone I know what it is like, but never lost a fish in it. To me you don’t have a lot so I’d be removing it all to check for a fish is my point. I’d wanting that dead fish out that’s for sure

I would also say replace the hardscape as it’s not fit for purpose for your stock If you keep having “missing fish” in it.

One other thing I do need to mention... all my java ferns are attached to the dragon rock with the ryzomes in the holes... I wouldnt really know how to go about taking all the ferns out with the fish in a re-attaching them to something with possibly no places to attach them to... I cant use fishing line because I have tried tying to things before but the plants fall off... And IF I was to use super glue, I would have to leave all the plants out of the tank for a while before I can put them back in

 

[itiwhetu]

It is a bad idea to ever leave a dead fish in a tank.
Fish don't tend to get stuck in caves, they are way too clever for that.

 

[Rocky998]

It is a bad idea to ever leave a dead fish in a tank.
Fish don't tend to get stuck in caves, they are way too clever for that.

While I understand fish can be smart... people make fish traps that have the same layout as some of the rock caves inside of dragon stone where they squeeze in but cant find a way out... He could have died by getting cut inside of the rock and then couldnt get out...

 

[itiwhetu]

I dont think their "too advanced"... Maybe they are a little harder to keep but honestly I think he got stuck in a rock and died... I cant find em anywhere... The female has been going strong though! I see one good thing out of this though... I wasnt going to add any more Gudgeons due tothe male being aggressive BUT dont think I'm going to go tothe store and add more... I am going to wait a LONG time... So now my plans are to add the schooling fish in 3-5 months down the road IF all goes well and then 3-5 months AFTER that I will try adding 3 more gudgeons... My female isn't aggressive and has only acted in "defence" towards the male... So until I find the fish I am going to assume he is dead from trying to put his body in a hole way too small and then he was able to get in but couldnt get out... I think I have learned not to use dragon rock for small bottom dwellers that like tight spaces...

No luck finding him... I am about to do an ammonia test on the tank... The tank size is a 20 gallon high. In inches it is 24×12×16... Ive had these two fish for apx 2-3 months... Here is a pic I just took this morning:
View attachment 156162

It is not kind to leave that fish all alone in the tank. I will make a prediction, if you don't sort out your pH on this tank more fish will die.

 

[Rocky998]

It is not kind to leave that fish all alone in the tank. I will make a prediction, if you don't sort out your pH on this tank more fish will die.

Its impossible to... KH is 14 and everything was going perfect... if the fish really didnt like the tank they wouldve shown some sign of death... I cant do anything for the next few months... So sadly that fish will have to be in there for a while by itself which she seems to be enjoying... Always active... I do wish I had a lower PH but like most say: "A stable PH is better than a fluctuating one"... Mine is always staying at an 8.1 and nothing changes it, besides vinegar which im sure wont be healthy. The vinegar keeps it down for a week or more but I dont want to harm fish with that accidentally... And one of the moderators told me in PMs that his lambchop rasboras which live in a PH of 8. something have vibrant color and have been living for years...

 

[OliveFish05]

You plan to try to gudgeons again? Just curious, why wait so long? I do worry about the single female. Social fish need other fish, obviously you know that. Maybe she is ok right now, but surely the longterm being alone will be harmful?

 

[Rocky998]

You plan to try to gudgeons again? Just curious, why wait so long? I do worry about the single female. Social fish need other fish, obviously you know that. Maybe she is ok right now, but surely the longterm being alone will be harmful?

I am not adding another fish into this tank until I find that missing gudgeon dead or alive... After I find him, depending if I know the cause or not, I will be waiting a month or two before purchasing any more gudgeons. This is to ensure that the fish I have currently is ok and that the tank is ok... Once I wait a while I will put some safestart in to help bacteria loss and then actually add in the rasboras and gudgeons but I will QT first of course... It could be 2 months or it could be a year... who knows

 

[OliveFish05]

I am not adding another fish into this tank until I find that missing gudgeon dead or alive... After I find him, depending if I know the cause or not, I will be waiting a month or two before purchasing any more gudgeons. This is to ensure that the fish I have currently is ok and that the tank is ok... Once I wait a while I will put some safestart in to help bacteria loss and then actually add in the rasboras and gudgeons but I will QT first of course... It could be 2 months or it could be a year... who knows

I don't think there will be anything left of the male gudgeon in a month? Is it possible he is guarding fry or something? I don't know much about gudgeons...

 

[Rocky998]

I don't think there will be anything left of the male gudgeon in a month? Is it possible he is guarding fry or something? I don't know much about gudgeons...

Yes, they do guard for up to 2-3 days BUT he is definitely not mature enough to "actually" do his thing in the process of babies so...

 

[.Craig.]

what about the beneficial bacteria on the rock? Also, how would I remove and add stuff without harming the remaining fish?... It seems like a very big and maybe even expensive job... What other rock besides slate and seiryu stone could I use that would do good at making caves

what about the beneficial bacteria on the rock? Also, how would I remove and add stuff without harming the remaining fish?... It seems like a very big and maybe even expensive job... What other rock besides slate and seiryu stone could I use that would do good at making caves

You have BB on more than the rocks, so personally I have switched out rocks without any issue & have also done a substrate swap with no issue. remove them slowly if you are worried, or just the worst ones. There are a lot of aqua scaping rocks if you want to Google it. Just depends if you want inert or not. You can create caves in various ways with almost ANY rock just depends on what you like the look of and which rock might alter the water Chemistry.

As for epiphyte plants they Would not be harmed moving them as long as the rhizome is not wrecked. But I see the issue with it in holes. but you can hide what they are attached to so you would not notice the rock I have a few in my tank on different rocks, just place behind a good stone Or wood.

on the glue.. seachem glue dries rapidly when it gets wet.

All of this is pointless if the fish is not stuck in a rock btw Or this is a one off!

 

[Rocky998]

You have BB on more than the rocks

I know this but it still was a concern...

remove them slowly if you are worried, or just the worst ones.

What do you mean by: "the worst ones"...

As for epiphyte plants they Would not be harmed moving them as long as the rhizome is not wrecked. But I see the issue with it in holes. but you can hide what they are attached to so you would not notice the rock I have a few in my tank on different rocks, just place behind a good stone Or wood.

Lets say I use some grey river stones... They are very smooth and wouldn't stack very well and wont look natural spread out to hold the ferns, how would you hide fishing line or glue from that?

on the glue.. seachem glue dries rapidly when it gets wet.

That is good to know! Thanks!
I guess if I was to swap out the rocks with plants I would slowly take them out ine by one each day and replace each rock with another one and then attaching the ferns to the new rocks... Of course attaching them before putting the new rocks in.

All of this is pointless if the fish is not stuck in a rock btw Or this is a one off!

This is very true...

 

[itiwhetu]

Don't over think it pull everything out and then put it back, simple really

 

[Rocky998]

Don't over think it pull everything out and then put it back, simple really

Easier said than done... I will try to tomorrow though

 

[.Craig.]

I know this but it still was a concern...

What do you mean by: "the worst ones"...

Lets say I use some grey river stones... They are very smooth and wouldn't stack very well and wont look natural spread out to hold the ferns, how would you hide fishing line or glue from that?


That is good to know! Thanks!
I guess if I was to swap out the rocks with plants I would slowly take them out ine by one each day and replace each rock with another one and then attaching the ferns to the new rocks... Of course attaching them before putting the new rocks in.

This is very true...

River rock spread Out would look odd I agree but I have seen some scapes using it and it’s definitely on my todo list because it looks very natural, river rock with wood especially. you can attached plants with glue to all surfaces it’s great! I previously tried thread but it was too fiddly unless I was using moss. When the plants grow you won’t see glue.

as you can see I have also have ALOT of caves

all my plants are glued to loose rocks so I can move them with ease.(larger rocks have nothing glued to them) Just a few crypts, Vallisneria and rotala are not Obviously Glued.

 

[Rocky998]

River rock spread Out would look odd I agree but I have seen some scapes using it and it’s definitely on my todo list because it looks very natural, river rock with wood especially. you can attached plants with glue to all surfaces it’s great! I previously tried thread but it was too fiddly unless I was using moss. When the plants grow you won’t see glue.

as you can see I have also have ALOT of caves

all my plants are glued to loose rocks so I can move them with ease.(larger rocks have nothing glued to them) Just a few crypts, Vallisneria and rotala are not Obviously Glued.

View attachment 156184

How do you suggest I glue the ferns to the smoother stones? How long should I hold it to the glue for it to have a good hold?