Lowisuzu's Tank Odyssey

[Miss Wiggle]

the process of the nitrogen cycle itself forces pH down, it's only really a concern while the tank is cycling, after that it should stabilise, so long as your water changes are keeping it around 7 then it's fine, but if it keeps dropping you may want to consider buffering up your KH, have a read of the link in my sig about pH and this should explain some more.

 

[LowIsuzu]

ok, so i have a couple things on my mind this afternoon.

Here is a quick list of all my water measurements from the 11 days.
(Previous to this i didnt have a water test kit. DOH!)

towards the end there, i am not picking up on ANY Nitrite or Nitrate, and a small trace of ammonia every afternoon. i change my water 50% every afternoon after i test my water and every now and then After the water change to see what difference it makes.
what does this mean?

how far off would i be if i said that i am not picking up any trace of nitrite n nitrate because the bacteria that convert the ammonia into nitrite have not produced enough to make any nitrite, and i dont have any nitrite converting bacteria to make nitrate?

the other thing, 2 of my serpae have white tips of their anal? fin. this happened to several of my Neons, i cant remember if they were the ones that died or the 2 that remain.
any idea's what this could be? fin rot?

pictures are terrible, as i dont have a decent camera that will focus on the little guys.

 

[Corleone]

The white tips are normal: http/badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile75.html
For fin rot, it might be clear, a dirty gray-white from excess mucous, or red, not a nice strong white like that.

The first thing that comes to my mind is that you're simply doing so many water changes to control ammonia that you're losing your nitrate and nitrite readings. Id that's the case, it might just take more time, but I'm a bit concerned that it seems to want to settle there, though it hasn't been long enough to really worry, I'm going to ask just in case: Do you happen to know how many gallons per hour your filter moves?

Also, are these results all before or after water changes? The most meaningful results are ones you take just before you do a water change, since they give an idea of how much accumulation you're getting.

 

[LowIsuzu]

These results are for JUST before water changes. i have been doing a 50% WC every 24 hours.

my filter, i thought was a fluval1, which is 180 Litres per Hour (47.5 Gallon/H). but i just checked, and there is a GEMINI which says 170L/H (44Gallon/H)

 

[waterdrop]

Corleone, I was coming to the same conclusion before even reading your post. Certainly seems like a case of very small tank (6.6 US gallons I believe) and very frequent water changes (this is very good - assume this is still being necessary to get the ammonia down below 0.25ppm, right Lowlsuzi?)

I've seen a few other cases like this and am thinking "small tanks, daily fairly large water changes.. almost no nitrites,nitrates while the A-Bac population is still small."

With "fish-in" cycling, your choices of actions to take are many fewer than with "fishless" cycling. Your only choice really is to just be fanatical about keeping ammonia and nitrite as close to zero as possible via water changes. So really, you can sit back and relax that you are doing the right thing. I don't know that there's any evidence that the "fish-in" cycle takes longer than the average 4-6 weeks when the tank is small, it might, but I haven't heard people generalize that.

I really think that even though the tests show the ammonia and nitrite levels very low, there is plenty of food in there for the growth of the fledgling populations and they will indeed gradually grow and eventually you will pass the test of the filter keeping things down to zero for two days straight without you doing water changes.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[LowIsuzu]

yeah i am doing water changes to reduce the ammount of ammonia in there.
it seems that before i do a water change, the fish look a bit dull and dont swim around too much, but as soon as they have fresh water they perk right up. this could also be because of the new water splashin into the tank n wakin them up a bit, lol.

i guess i will just carry on testing and water changing when i spot ammonia i guess...
thanks

 

[LowIsuzu]

I still havn't really seen any sort of change in my tank. Same thing Every day...

Day 24 being TODAY.

 

[LowIsuzu]

so, 29 days into the Nicks Fish Tank Saga...

i now have a bit of a nitrate trend going on in my tank.
daily, 5ppm.

is this the finish of the tank cycle?
i didnt see a spike in nitrite at all.....?
whats going on?

BTW, im still doing daily 50% WC, or every other day if i miss out.

 

[LowIsuzu]

alright, still no replies, so i will make another post....

11/08/08 and 12/08/08
ph - 7.2, Ammonia - 0.25, Nitrite - 0, Nitrate - between 0.25 and 5 (both days)

im still not really sure which part of the nitrogen cycle i am in?

anyone have any idea's....?

 

[LowIsuzu]

Anyone? surely someone must want to help me out???

Todays water tests:

ammonia: 2.5, Nitrite: 0, Nitrate: 7.

i think the reason nitrate is at 7 is because i did not do a WC last night. (i have been doing 50% wc daily due to fish in cycle...)


can anyone tell me at what point in the nitrogen cycle i am at?

can i be at the end of the cycle? i am still getting readings of ammonia each day... im slightly confused.

 

[minxfishy]

Hard to tell which stage you are at, but as the ammonia is still not processing itself into nitrite on a regular basis, then I would say still in the 1st stage. Unfortunately until their is no longer traces of ammonia then you wont reach the second stage. When you do the nitrite will start to be the real pain as it can take weeks with a fish-in cycle to finally grow enough bacteria to process it to nitrAte.

Keep up the water changes to keep the ammonia below 0.25 and the nitrite below 0.25. I know it seems like a long time and you are probably getting fed up with this, but you will get there in the end

 

[Miss Wiggle]

sorry not replied for a bit, been on my holidays.

I've seen this a few times, small tanks with big water changes every day can often show no signs of cycling.

The nitrate is a good sign, it means that you do have some NBacs and that they are growing. All that's happening is (as WD mentioned earlier) the water changes are being so effective that they're keeping the nitrite below the point where it can be detected by our test kits. Also remember that while our test kits are good enough for our purposes, you're not going to get sophisticated laboratory equipment for £15 or so, often levels are there but are just undetectable.

There is also a slim chance that the test kit is faulty, to confirm/deny this take a sample of the water, test it yourself and record the results, then take the same sample to the lfs and ask them to test it. Obviously if the results are singificantly different then you have a problem on your hands.

Really in practical terms, the purpose of the water changes is to keep the water as clean as is possible for the fish while cycling. Your readings just show that you are doing a good job of this. Don't worry about the bacteria finding enough food, all that you remove with water changes is any excess that they have not been able to consume so they will be using up the maximum that they can use.

You may find that you just don't get a nitrite spike at all. Just stick with what you are doing now for the time being, when the ammonia drops down to be steady at 0 just keep going, you might see a nitrite spike you might not, keep with the daily water changes for a minimum of 2 weeks after this point. If you are still not seeing the nitrite then you're either removing all the excess successfully or you are cycled. So stop doing the water changes, increase the monitoring if you can to testing every 12 hrs, if it's not cycled then after a few days nitrite will creep up and obviously you do water changes to remove it, if it doesn't creep up then it's all done and the tank is cycled and you can just go to a normal routine of weekly water changes.