Lots Of Sick Dying Fish

[Stephan]

I'm gonna give as much info as possible.

Just did water checks with API master kit.

Ammonia not 0 not .25 yet
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 10-20 PPM
Ph 8.2

Current water temp about 82. Had a heater that thermometer didn't work right. Working on getting it down.

Just added another airstone in case o2 was low.

I'm also about to do a large water change.

This tank ive had approx 1 month plus BUT it had goldfish in it for years and I kept the filter media. Put in 3 danio and 5 tiger barbs. Then later 5 more.

I would say about 3 weeks ago I took all those out and moved in from my 30 gallon 1 angelfish, 1 rainbow shark, 5 adult and few baby mollies plus some glass shrimp. Soon after I added 4 blue gourami. And right after that 2 more small angels.

The only real chasing I've seen is the rainbow chasing everyone away from the bottom when there are peas.

The water readings have been consistent with ammonia never going over .25 ppm.

A week ago I added my 13 neon tetra to the tank. And followed up Thursday with 10 newly purchased cardinal tetra. Again ammonia never got over .25.

Nitrates were really high at one point so I washed filter media in tank water and vacuumed well. They are now good but were never really terrible.

I changed out the gravel about 2 weeks ago.

The aquatech filter has 2 side by side media inserts so I gave one yo my friend Tuesday to help him cycle and added a new one. Knowing it could cause issues I was at .25 next day but did water change and next day back to normal. So appears the filter caught up fast.

Same time I saw a neon tetra with fungus and removed him. Then since putting the cardinals in either 3 of them or neons hard to tell when dead have died. Wrote it off as them being easily stressed in transport.

Friday evening got 2 more small angels. One of them died last night after floating around pretty listlessly for a while. The other one started acting same last night but was swimming this morning. Now I don't see him. I assume he's dead or close. I have to admit I had them in the carry bag about 6 hours but they still seemed ok in the tank.

I did notice that night the fish were pretty restless with each other. One blue gourami has a spot where body meets tail that looks like blood inside like a wound. So may have been a fight. This is interesting BC the second new angel looked more like hiding than sick.

Now tonight my male cremecicle Molly very healthy and active was doing the predeath listless float. That's when I thought about o2 levels and put another stone and he appears to be somewhat better.

Other recent change is instead of full service water conditioner I switched to API dechlor. But our water is community well sourced. Chlorine. Not really heavy metals to speak of. So I don't think this change should be a problem.

So action plan at the moment is large water change, keep 2 airstones in and changed heaters to hopefully keep temp in a better range.

Any other advice or suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[blesser13]

Even if you got an old filter media it take time to cycle your new tank anyway, im a bit confused, you had 2 tanks (I would say about 3 weeks ago I took all those out and moved in from my 30 gallon), so rite now you only got a 30 gallon? in another post you mention a 55 gallon i think

 

[This Old Spouse]

I'm a bit confused as well. Could you please tell us what tanks you have and who's in them, what the substrate is, what kind of filters, all that stuff. You can probably design your signature so all that stuff is contained right there.

 

[SJM]

hi,

What size tank do you have , you maybe over stocking?
i think a treatment of your main tank would be a very good idea, as it could stop any further out brake.

all you said you had the fish in the bag for six hours? not a good idea, as the need fresh filtered air, and it is recommended not to leave fish in a bag any longer then 40 mins.

So during this time they may have broken down in there immune system, and got a disease, or they could have had a minor one from the pet shop, and this could have just made it become stronger.

Also make sure your tank isnt over stocked with live plants as they can out weigh your correct levels.

you may have just got a bad batch of new fish, did the pet shop add stress coat to the bag upon leaving?

What have you plains been so far, just water changes?

 

[Stephan]

The tank in question is a 55. I also have a 30 which now has the tiger barbs and danios. I know it still takes time to cycle new tank with old media but actually the tank isn't new. I just removed all the goldfish and took it to my house and stocked ig tropical. As I say my ammonia has not gone over .25 since I started checking about 30 weeks ago. Substrate is gravel. What do u want to know about the filter? It's the kind that hangs over the side and water gets pumped through it.

 

[Stephan]

Just finished the 80 percent approx water change. With the other air pump that Molly is about 50 percent better. I'm leaning toward low o2 being our cause here. Does this seem reasonable?

 

[Stephan]

Oh forgot to say the missing angel is nowhere to be found. Unfortunately has to be dead.

 

[fluttermoth]

I know you haven't seen any ammonia spikes, but I still think you've been adding quite large numbers of fish in a very short space of time and that that is where your problems are coming from.

In general you should add no more than 50% of the current stocking every two weeks (so, if you had 10 neons, you could add five and then another five in two weeks).

 

[blesser13]

+1 to what fluttermoth just said, you should wait and see how your tank react with few fishes in for a while. If you don't lose any fishes, you can add few more

 

[This Old Spouse]

hi,

What size tank do you have , you maybe over stocking?
i think a treatment of your main tank would be a very good idea, as it could stop any further out brake.

all you said you had the fish in the bag for six hours? not a good idea, as the need fresh filtered air, and it is recommended not to leave fish in a bag any longer then 40 mins.

So during this time they may have broken down in there immune system, and got a disease, or they could have had a minor one from the pet shop, and this could have just made it become stronger.

Also make sure your tank isnt over stocked with live plants as they can out weigh your correct levels.

you may have just got a bad batch of new fish, did the pet shop add stress coat to the bag upon leaving?

What have you plains been so far, just water changes?

Where are you getting your information??

The tank in question is a 55. I also have a 30 which now has the tiger barbs and danios. I know it still takes time to cycle new tank with old media but actually the tank isn't new. I just removed all the goldfish and took it to my house and stocked ig tropical. As I say my ammonia has not gone over .25 since I started checking about 30 weeks ago. Substrate is gravel. What do u want to know about the filter? It's the kind that hangs over the side and water gets pumped through it.

That's what we call an HOB filter (hang on back). I agree with others, that you just added too many fish in too short a span of time. Just let things mellow out a bit and then I'd just add a small number of fish when things are looking good again.

 

[Stephan]

Well I'm actually up to the total of what I want now so don't really need to add any more.

What specifically does adding too many fish in too short a period affect?

Can't blame it on a batch of bad fish since I've had the Molly for a while.

 

[Louiseness]

The bacteria in your filter that process ammonia and nitrites grow to accommodate the waste levels produced by your existing fish. If you add any more fish it takes a while for them to grow to deal with the waste that the new fish add. If you add lots of fish at once the bacteria get overloaded and can't grow to process the ammonia/nitrite fast enough, which causes a 'spike' which can kill your fish.

 

[fluttermoth]

it is recommended not to leave fish in a bag any longer then 40 mins.

Out of interest, who is it that gave you this 'recommendation' and how do they think tropical fish come into this country? I've bought fish mail order with overnight delivery and the fish have been perfectly healthy.

 

[Stephan]

I know you haven't seen any ammonia spikes, but I still think you've been adding quite large numbers of fish in a very short space of time and that that is where your problems are coming from.

In general you should add no more than 50% of the current stocking every two weeks (so, if you had 10 neons, you could add five and then another five in two weeks).

The bacteria in your filter that process ammonia and nitrites grow to accommodate the waste levels produced by your existing fish. If you add any more fish it takes a while for them to grow to deal with the waste that the new fish add. If you add lots of fish at once the bacteria get overloaded and can't grow to process the ammonia/nitrite fast enough, which causes a 'spike' which can kill your fish.

So, basically when I put these 2 together, I'm reading I know you haven't seen any ammonia spikes, but the cause is ammonia spikes. That doesn't make sense. I test ammonia almost every day. And definitely so since the fish have died. I don't have ammonia spikes--unless it's possible for an ammonia spike to be very high in less than a day and then go back to normal...

The male cremecicle was upside down on the bottom when I got up this morning. I went to fish him out with the net to flush him and he started swimming again. The second airstone fell out last night, so I re-inserted it and made sure it was secure. Although the temperature is corrected to mid-70s now.

 

[fluttermoth]

It is possible for ammonia to spike and go back to zero in less than a day, and it doesn't need to go all that high to cause permanant gill damage, which reduces the amount of oxyegen in the fish's blood that can lead to all sorts of symptoms, including loss of balance that can effect fish for a long time after the actual damage is done.