Lost second fish

[Country joe]

My two local fish stores that I do business with both use RO water mixtures in their aquariums. Are you sure your LFS does not do the same? I use a RO system to get the best water quality possible for my soft water and low pH fish.

Don't know

 

[FishyD]

Get a glass of tap water and leave it on the bench. Test the pH when you first do that and 24 hours later.

Take some gravel out of the tank and put it in a bucket of tap water. have a second bucket of tap water next to it. Monitor the pH over a few days. If it goes up, then the gravel is raising the pH. If the pH doesn't change, then put the gravel back in the tank and try other things. You will have to move one item out at a time and check the pH of the water in the bucket each day to see if something is affecting it.

Don't use an acid buffer until you have tested everything in the tank. If there is something in the tank raising the pH, adding an acid buffer will only drop the pH and then it will go back up again the next day, and that is bad for the fish (fluctuating pH).

Excellent post. We can't always solve everything easy, but there are a lot of simple checks anyone can do that will accomplish some important detective work in a day or two. I wonder how many people spent a fortune on chemicals when the problem was in either their tap, or forty pounds of substrate, neither of which is going to going to stop fighting your efforts for a long while.

 

[Country joe]

Well I did the first test 24 hrs after adding the gravel and tank water and it came up ph 8, I then did a test on my cold water tap and it came up, I would say 7.5, I then did a test on a cold tap water that had sat for 24 hrs nothing in it, just water,, so and to my surprise the reading was 8 so I don't know what to do now.

 

[gwand]

Sounds more like a reagent problem or maybe how accurately you are performing test. Do it again on the same sample in triplicate and see how accurate you are.

 

[Country joe]

My tests are accurate I use NTLabs tests, I use a 5ml syringe which is clean as well as the phial which is only used for pH test and cleaned thoroughly after each test, 5 drops used to test ph.
I will take the pure tap water that sat for 24 hrs tomorrow to my aquarium shop and ask for a ph test, just to make sure,

 

[gwand]

My tests are accurate I use NTLabs tests, I use a 5ml syringe which is clean as well as the phial which is only used for pH test and cleaned thoroughly after each test, 5 drops used to test ph.
I will take the pure tap water that sat for 24 hrs tomorrow to my aquarium shop and ask for a ph test, just to make sure,

Definitely report back. I can’t think of a way that pH would increase in a water sample with no tampering left alone for 24 hours. This makes no sense to me.
I asked my AI program this question and this is what I reported back.
A small natural increase in pH over a day is possible, but there are some limiting factors to consider:

• Minimal change: A 24 hour period is unlikely to cause a significant rise in pH. The change from 7.5 to 8 is a tenth of a unit on the pH scale, which represents a tenfold difference in hydrogen ion concentration.
• Container influence: Certain container materials, like concrete or limestone, can leach out minerals that raise pH slightly. Glass or plastic containers are less likely to have this effect.
• Starting point: If the water source already has a high alkalinity (buffering capacity), a slight pH rise might be more noticeable. Rainwater can be slightly acidic, while well water can be more alkaline depending on the minerals it interacts with underground.

 

[Naughts]

Your pH is 8.0.
The water company will have added something to prevent lime scale so it initially appears to be 7.5, once left for a while it returns to it’s true level of 8.0.

 

[gwand]

Your pH is 8.0.
The water company will have added something to prevent lime scale so it initially appears to be 7.5, once left for a while it returns to it’s true level of 8.0.

What chemical are you referring to that evaporates out of solution?

 

[Magnum Man]

Not been involved in this conversation, but seem to remember co, or co2 that evaporates out in 24 hours, and changes the Ph, when it evaporates out of the water

 

[gwand]

Found it.
If CO2 leaves water, the pH will rise.

Here's why:

• Carbon dioxide (CO2) reacts with water (H2O) to form carbonic acid (H2CO3). This carbonic acid is what makes the water acidic, lowering the pH.
• When CO2 degasses from the water, the carbonic acid concentration goes down.
• With less carbonic acid, there are fewer hydrogen ions (H+) floating around in the water, causing the pH to rise.

 

[Colin_T]

Simplifying Gwand's post.

The gasses are getting out of whack when the water is in the pipes. When the water is exposed to air for 24 hours, the gasses get back into it in the correct amounts and the pH is going up.

 

[Country joe]

I was right, I took 2 samples to my Aquarium shop and the manager tested them for ph.
The water from the tap today was 7 ph, the tap water that sat for over 24 hrs was 8,
I called into my local waterboard who said the Aquarium shop which is 5 mins away from me, the water comes from a different reservoir, that's why his is a constant 7 ph and mine is 8 ph,
The large lump of rock in my tank is lava rock, so I'm removing it and replacing it with a lump of bogwood, I already have one decent bit in my tank, to see if it would make a difference I know this is not a quick solution, I would prefer this as a start as I don't want to use moss in my filter unless I have to.
I know there are fish that would do well in an 8 ph, but the reason I came into starting an aquarium was to keep Tetras.

 

[Country joe]

The aquarium manager recons that after a period the may become acclimatised to the 8 ph, although its not good for tetras, the problem would be with purchasing new fish and them going from a ph 7 to 8.

 

[Naughts]

The aquarium manager recons that after a period the may become acclimatised to the 8 ph, although its not good for tetras, the problem would be with purchasing new fish and them going from a ph 7 to 8.

The pH is not the only parameter, or even the most pertinent one. GH is general hardness, usually calcium and magnesium minerals. It is more important for the fish health and we should try and get fish with a GH average matching our source water GH. So Pristella Maxillaris (x-ray tetra) have a big range due to seasonal flooding of 2 dGH to 20 dGH. If your water was -for example- 11 dGH, they would be suitable, even with a consistent pH of 8 which is above their range of 6-7.5 pH. So what is your GH?

The large lump of rock in my tank is lava rock, so I'm removing it and replacing it with a lump of bogwood, I already have one decent bit in my tank, to see if it would make a difference

This may not make any difference. Another parameter, KH is carbonates and bicarbonates. It buffers the pH so if there is sufficient KH the pH will not change using driftwood, moss or peat. If the KH is low, the pH may drop suddenly. The interactions and relative values of pH, GH and KH are linked and it is rarely possible to shift one without the others. So if you find out the KH, you may see that the driftwood will not shift the parameters. Lava rock is frequently neutral and your test results indicate this is the case with yours.

 

[Naughts]

the problem would be with purchasing new fish and them going from a ph 7 to 8.

This is an issue. Is there another store you could use next time?