Liverbird's New Fishless Cycle

[BethK]

Have just re-tested my Ammonia and Nitrites in case my early dosing has caused any problems and i'm a bit shocked. Since this mornings test results (as posted) my Ammonia has dropped by another 2.0ppm and Nitrites are up by 2.0ppm. Is it normal to be getting these results over the period of a day ??

Did you change the water at all, within 8hrs of those readings?

 

[Liverbird36]

Have just re-tested my Ammonia and Nitrites in case my early dosing has caused any problems and i'm a bit shocked. Since this mornings test results (as posted) my Ammonia has dropped by another 2.0ppm and Nitrites are up by 2.0ppm. Is it normal to be getting these results over the period of a day ??

Did you change the water at all, within 8hrs of those readings?

No, no water changes at all. The only change was about a week ago when I removed the Carbon filter sponge and replaced with more Biomedia but it was new not mature. My Nitrates have risen to just under 50ppm and they were only 20ppm this morning. Really not sure what's happening. Didn't expect the Ammonia to drop and the Nitrites and Nitrates to rise that much within the day. Hope I haven't done anything wrong. Haven't touched the tank since the water 10% water change on day 8 which was about a week ago.

 

[Liverbird36]

I have to say i'm confused. Added 2ml Ammonia and levels were tested an hour later to be 4.0ppm; How is it possible that the following day the Ammonia has dropped to 0.50ppm !!! The Nitrites and Nitrates are still rising. Am I doing something wrong

 

[danb]

to be honest i think you're worrying too much. Let it take its course; i havent read the whole thread but when you see your nitrites spike, like you have, cut back the ammonia dosage to around half of what you was originally dosing per day. Over time the ammonia should be being processed from 4ppm to 0 ppm in under 12 hours. Once this happens and your nitrites are 0 and nitrates off the chart your qualification week starts. Albeing well you will be able to fully stock your tank at the end of this week.

 

[Liverbird36]

to be honest i think you're worrying too much. Let it take its course; i havent read the whole thread but when you see your nitrites spike, like you have, cut back the ammonia dosage to around half of what you was originally dosing per day. Over time the ammonia should be being processed from 4ppm to 0 ppm in under 12 hours. Once this happens and your nitrites are 0 and nitrates off the chart your qualification week starts. Albeing well you will be able to fully stock your tank at the end of this week.

Thanks danb !!!! i'm over the moon !!! thought I was going to have at least a couple of weeks wwhere the Ammonia takes time to drop. I knew in my heart it was going ok, but when it was mentioned that my not allowing the Ammonia to reach absolute zero, may have an adverse effect on my Abacs, I started to worry that maybe something was going a bit wrong. Many thanks for your reassurance. I guess i'd better start looking at fish stocking. Had thought this may take a very long time so haven't even considered what to get yet !! Many thanks again.

 

[LondonguyJ]

Thanks danb !!!! i'm over the moon !!! thought I was going to have at least a couple of weeks wwhere the Ammonia takes time to drop. I knew in my heart it was going ok, but when it was mentioned that my not allowing the Ammonia to reach absolute zero, may have an adverse effect on my Abacs, I started to worry that maybe something was going a bit wrong.

Liverbird

I never mentioned that your methodology would have an "adverse effect" on anything. I suggested (based on what I have learned) that you allow the A-Bacs to process your ammonia down to 0ppm because according to your log, you haven't reached a stage where your ammonia is being processed within 12 hours?

Or reached the stage where your A-bacs have been able to fully consume to ammonia in 18 days

It was simply a tip/suggestion, nothing less or more.

 

[OldMan47]

The whole concept of a fishless cycle is to maintain less than 5 ppm but always have some ammonia surplus to keep growing the bacteria. Since ammonia processing bacteria can double their numbers in a bit less than a day, going from a 1 ppm drop to a 2 ppm drop could in theory take as little as a day. In reality it seems to take a little longer. As you approach the end of a fishless cycle, you need to move the surplus ammonia up to around 4 or 5 ppm to ensure you have a maximized bacterial colony, but before those last few days, any easily measured surplus is enough. Every bit of ammonia that is actually processed by the bacteria should give around 2.7 ppm of nitrites but we never see quite that much. Plants, even simple algae, will use some of the nitrogen so it won't move through to become nitrites.

 

[Liverbird36]

The whole concept of a fishless cycle is to maintain less than 5 ppm but always have some ammonia surplus to keep growing the bacteria. Since ammonia processing bacteria can double their numbers in a bit less than a day, going from a 1 ppm drop to a 2 ppm drop could in theory take as little as a day. In reality it seems to take a little longer. As you approach the end of a fishless cycle, you need to move the surplus ammonia up to around 4 or 5 ppm to ensure you have a maximized bacterial colony, but before those last few days, any easily measured surplus is enough. Every bit of ammonia that is actually processed by the bacteria should give around 2.7 ppm of nitrites but we never see quite that much. Plants, even simple algae, will use some of the nitrogen so it won't move through to become nitrites.

Hi Oldman, as I am now adding daily, should I still keep the Ammonia to around the 4.0ppm level or drop to around 2.0ppm. The 0.50 I had this morning went to zero so I only added half my usual dose which bought the level to 2.0ppm but have just tested and the Ammonia has gone to zero in 6hrs. Should I be increasing the dose back to my original level do you think ? sorry to be a pain but i'm a bit confused as to the amount I need to add daily.

 

[OldMan47]

Once you start going through the nitrite spike it is best to back off to about a 2 ppm add daily. Before you see the nitrite spike start there is really no reason to back away.

 

[Liverbird36]

Once you start going through the nitrite spike it is best to back off to about a 2 ppm add daily. Before you see the nitrite spike start there is really no reason to back away.

Have just read an item you posted on pdsimon's cycle journal regarding the pulsing of the Ammonia once in Nitrite spike. Everything makes sense to me now. I have added a bit more ammonia than I should of now that i'm adding daily. Taking time out to read other people's cycles makes a huge difference. Will drop ammonia added for tomorrows dose. Thank you for taking the time to help.

 

[PDSimon]

Yup now the 4ppm is processing in 24 hours, you can reduce the ammonia level to 2

You may notice the nitrite test going different colours now, such as grey... hopefully they'll come back down soon enough.

 

[Liverbird36]

Yup now the 4ppm is processing in 24 hours, you can reduce the ammonia level to 2

You may notice the nitrite test going different colours now, such as grey... hopefully they'll come back down soon enough.

Thanks Si
Spent a lot of time going back through your log and it's helped a huge amount. If in doubt I check your cycle out lol If I get stuck, I know whose door to come knocking at.

 

[Liverbird36]

I'm on day 2 of adding the ammonia daily and are a bit surprised at my Nitrite reading. Could it be a glitch ?? if not, is it ok for it to drop like that ?? Are wondering if I should be testing every 12hrs now. That result has kind of thrown me a bit as was expecting the Nitrites to take twice as long to drop as the Ammonia.

 

[PDSimon]

Sometimes happens, double check if your unsure

 

[waterdrop]

Hi there Liverbird,

You may be lucky and have a larger starting number of N-Bacs than most fishless cycles, but you'll need to proceed slowly to confirm that. I feel its best to be very cautious about a nitrite spike that is short (ie. goes from being off the chart to zero in just few days) and occurs within Day 30 or under of the fishless cycle. We've had at least one case here in the beginners section where a clear nitrite spike occurred like this, then dropped solidly to zero and the person did the big water change, got fish and promptly went into a terrible fish-in cycling situation. This, and a few similar cases made me feel its better to be suspicious about nitrite spikes that are short and happening early.

~~waterdrop~~