Liquoric Gourami identifying

[ZanaZoola14]

Hello, I have a group of liquorice gourami, and wondering what type I do have, thanks. Shipped as P. Deissneri - however that seems very unlikely.

I've tried to get the best photos that I can.

(hope this works
https://photos.app.goo.gl/8nVS3DYpDpyHVYnRA
as this has videos that will help more)

Thanks for any assistance.

 

[Byron]

The following excerpt from my profile of this species may provide some guidance. As it mentions, the branching of the male caudal fin may help, but I cannot see this in the photos.

There are several distinct species commonly termed "Licorice Gourami," and they are very similar in appearance. In the early 1950's a slightly different form of Licorice Gourami appeared, described as Parosphromenus paludicola by Tweedie in 1952. Over the following decades, a number of new distinct "Licorice Gourami" species were identified and described. A significant characteristic to differentiate species in this genus is the branching of the caudal fin rays in males. There are presently 18 described species, and there are a number of other forms that may eventually be described as new species or subspecies, or simply variants of existing species. The second photo below is of the "red" form.

This species was initially described in 1859 by Pieter Bleeker who placed it in the genus Osphronemus erected by B.G.E. Lacepede in 1801, which at the time contained all the known gourami species. The name comes from the Greek osphra (= smell) and nema (= filament), a reference to the thread-like pelvic fins that have taste cells at the tips. The spelling "Osphromenus" was an unjustified emendation by Gunther in 1861; the correct spelling of the genus is Osphronemus. In 1877, Bleeker erected the new genus Parosphromenus for this species; the name means "like Osphromenus," and Bleeker obviously used Gunther's emended spelling of the original genus name.

It was not until 1998 that the true identity of the type fish on which Bleeker had based his description was resolved by Kottelat & Ng (1998). The type specimen [termed a holotype] used by Bleeker for his description of this species was a female (thus lacking the male colouration) and the caudal fin was damaged. Having described a new species, Parosphronemus bintan, which occurs on the island of Bintan but also on Bangka, the sole known locality of the subject species, Kottelat and Ng had to re-describe the species P. deissneri from a new specimen [termed a neotype] in order to accurately differentiate the two distinct species. This accords with the rules of the ICZN [International Commission on Zoological Nomenclature]; the species epithet assigned by the initial describer remains valid and Bleeker is correctly named as the original describer of this species.

 

[ZanaZoola14]

The following excerpt from my profile of this species may provide some guidance. As it mentions, the branching of the male caudal fin may help, but I cannot see this in the photos.

There are several distinct species commonly termed "Licorice Gourami," and they are very similar in appearance. In the early 1950's a slightly different form of Licorice Gourami appeared, described as Parosphromenus paludicola by Tweedie in 1952. Over the following decades, a number of new distinct "Licorice Gourami" species were identified and described. A significant characteristic to differentiate species in this genus is the branching of the caudal fin rays in males. There are presently 18 described species, and there are a number of other forms that may eventually be described as new species or subspecies, or simply variants of existing species. The second photo below is of the "red" form.

This species was initially described in 1859 by Pieter Bleeker who placed it in the genus Osphronemus erected by B.G.E. Lacepede in 1801, which at the time contained all the known gourami species. The name comes from the Greek osphra (= smell) and nema (= filament), a reference to the thread-like pelvic fins that have taste cells at the tips. The spelling "Osphromenus" was an unjustified emendation by Gunther in 1861; the correct spelling of the genus is Osphronemus. In 1877, Bleeker erected the new genus Parosphromenus for this species; the name means "like Osphromenus," and Bleeker obviously used Gunther's emended spelling of the original genus name.

It was not until 1998 that the true identity of the type fish on which Bleeker had based his description was resolved by Kottelat & Ng (1998). The type specimen [termed a holotype] used by Bleeker for his description of this species was a female (thus lacking the male colouration) and the caudal fin was damaged. Having described a new species, Parosphronemus bintan, which occurs on the island of Bintan but also on Bangka, the sole known locality of the subject species, Kottelat and Ng had to re-describe the species P. deissneri from a new specimen [termed a neotype] in order to accurately differentiate the two distinct species. This accords with the rules of the ICZN [International Commission on Zoological Nomenclature]; the species epithet assigned by the initial describer remains valid and Bleeker is correctly named as the original describer of this species.

Yes, that is also why I said I do not believe that I have that type. And the videos show better. There looks to maybe be a slight spade-like point on one or two, one looks very round but coloured, one is large no colour, the rest are smaller.

As I do not see this filament, this was why I was asking.
Looks slightly more like p. Bintan (going from memory, think that is correct) because of this.
Or even p. Sentang, which is commonly imported I think?

 

[Byron]

Other members who know these species better will be of more help, I just got the discussion started. I have only ever seen and kept the type species. I will say your aquascape looks absolutely ideal, nice work. This is not always an easy fish.

 

[ZanaZoola14]

Other members who know these species better will be of more help, I just got the discussion started. I have only ever seen and kept the type species. I will say your aquascape looks absolutely ideal, nice work. This is not always an easy fish.

Thanks.

Yeah, loved setting it up (especially as I sneaked it in after being told no more). Loved playing with it. The sand has leaves and various botanicals mixed into it (boiled in RO not tap). The wood, well, I got nearly £100 worth of spider wood and some red finger root and chopped and snapped until it worked.
More botanicals on top of that, adding almost weekly as well. Natural caves using cocoa boats that I spent hours cutting the ends of to create an opening when they curl up. Tubing burried only slightly open above the sand just incase, alongside a cichlid cave I had spare holding the wood up from the bottom.

The ph is so low my liquid test just freak out, at least lower than 6.
Kh and Gh need lowering more, as they are still 2dKh and 3dGh, so more work to go.
Tds stays around 40-90 ppm depending on the amount of tannins.

Attempting a blackwater tank was a dream of mine from when I first saw one and I just finally had the chance. I'll be getting a ro/di to assist in getting these levels down more. And I only recently added the light, but the fish seem to like it, gathering in the lit up corner and just staring at me (scared me so much first time they did that.)

Pic of aquascape (rocks removed, and after sand and botanicals added, a type of crypt was also added).

 

[Byron]

My source water has always been around 7 ppm, less than 1 dH in GH, and in the 1 dKH range. The pH went below 5, that is the lowest I could ever test, and probably was around 3-4. My soft water fish thrived and spawned continually, and I left parameters alone. Made substantial water changes easy, being able to use tap water directly.

 

[threecharacters]

I feel like it might be P. sp "Sentang". I feel like I've seen these available the most recently. The blue outline on the fins seems more like sentang than bintan as I think bintan have a good amount of blue on the fins themselves.

 

[ZanaZoola14]

My source water has always been around 7 ppm, less than 1 dH in GH, and in the 1 dKH range. The pH went below 5, that is the lowest I could ever test, and probably was around 3-4. My soft water fish thrived and spawned continually, and I left parameters alone. Made substantial water changes easy, being able to use tap water directly.

My source water is very different. 350+ppm, 26+dGh, 9dKh, ph 7.8. So my tap can cure shimmies in mollies, it is that mineralised. Enought to do rift lake cichlids if I knock that ph up some.

I have to use RO with discus minerals for my softwater tanks, but they are doing well, breeding happily and vibrant colours. (they're spoilt for food as well). This tank has sparkling gouramis in as well that look to be starting to court and show interest in breeding.
The blackwater tank is pure ro, just slight residuel minerals from the container.

Hence getting an RO/DI system for myself, and at least 100gpd, preferably 200gpd or up. I love soft water fish, and have very hard water (the Gh is increasing weekly, and the source nitrate is like over 50, killed tanks over night after a water change).

Anyway, heard licorice needed really acidic, so that is what I did, especially as I was originally getting wild caught until the indo shipment got cancelled. But if another comes up (will be at least 4 months), these might move into the larger (120ltr long) tank and I get some wild caught to go in that more specialised tank. Especially as it took over 2 hours to drip them because they came from ph7.8, 10dKh and 16dGh. I debated putting some of my tap into the tank.

 

[ZanaZoola14]

I feel like it might be P. sp "Sentang". I feel like I've seen these available the most recently. The blue outline on the fins seems more like sentang than bintan as I think bintan have a good amount of blue on the fins themselves.

Likely, however, these fish are still settling. Those photos were taken on day one. Day one, within 4 hours of going in the tank, they had those colours.

 

[ZanaZoola14]

I feel like it might be P. sp "Sentang". I feel like I've seen these available the most recently. The blue outline on the fins seems more like sentang than bintan as I think bintan have a good amount of blue on the fins themselves.

I managed to get better image of them. And shows the colours better, including the red that has developed.

 

[Alice B]

Hello, I have a group of liquorice gourami, and wondering what type I do have, thanks. Shipped as P. Deissneri - however that seems very unlikely.

I've tried to get the best photos that I can.

(hope this works
https://photos.app.goo.gl/8nVS3DYpDpyHVYnRA
as this has videos that will help more)

Thanks for any assistance.

I have never seen a licorice gourami before, but do I see a dried lotus bloom-head in that tank? I didn't know they might be used in tanks. It's a gorgeous tank btw.

 

[ZanaZoola14]

I have never seen a licorice gourami before, but do I see a dried lotus bloom-head in that tank? I didn't know they might be used in tanks. It's a gorgeous tank btw.

Yes, I have 5 small ones in there, alongside around 15 banana leaves (including 8 mixed into the substrate with other leaves I had spare, cobra and cocoa being some). And various others alongside 6 cocoa boats that I cut the end of, lightly shredding the end (to add to the substrate, to use as natural caves, alongside 30+ acorn caps. Would have added more, but I just did a huge botanical box to auction for charity so working of what I have left.

They seem to enjoy the heads. I do not personally like them much myself, but threw them in to give them something else to explore.

And thanks! It was really fun to make, I have to buy a new phone after dropping it in the tannin bucket, but do not regret it. These fish have such a personality! (always staring me down, not realising that they are meant to be shy. They'll fit right in!)

 

[Alice B]

I think my little trilineatus cories might enjoy a lotus head to try out. My bronze are fatties so I don't think I have one big enough for them.

 

[ZanaZoola14]

I think my little trilineatus cories might enjoy a lotus head to try out. My bronze are fatties so I don't think I have one big enough for them.

They'll love them, different sizes as well.
Look into buddah nuts, my cories loved them, like larger smilly caves.

 

[threecharacters]

I think it's going to be hard to get a precise ID on these guys partially because there are probably some undescribed species being imported.

See if the seriouslyfish page helps with the ID at all --> https://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/parosphromenus-sp-sentang/

There is another possible fish it could be which is P. sp. 'blue line', another undescribed species.