Lfs And Contradicting Info

[crazysilverwolf]

Does comman sense go out the window when you run a LFS, i popped out today to get a clean up crew, my tank has been running for 11 days, short period but it has cycled, i've monited the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate and have wathed them spike and drop to zero, which reading this forum i understand to be the time for a clean up crew. shoot me if i've got it wrong, really do it.

he then tells me my readings must be wrong because the tank can't cycle that quick and to come back in six weeks. now i'm not stupid and i've kept tropical for ten years i know how to read the tests, but i bowed to his knowledge and he says what did i want, a complete u turn in a single sentance.

so i have a clean up shrimp, two turbo snails and six narcius snails and two blue hermit crabs. i'm happy with the statis of my tank but to the lfs to sell to me after saying come back in six weeks is beyond me.

ohh and get this, these won't make an impact on my tank and to come back in a few days to get a couple of fish. i'm so confused,

I'm reading this forum to get info on keeping marine fish and i honestly belive that you guys are the best peaple to get info from. you keep the creatures, look after them and nurture them to there currnt forms and luv them to bits, ( it nearly killed me to give my tropicals away ) so why is it these lfs can give such varied and contradicting infomation its enough to put anyone off for live.

#42###

 

[mattyg12uk]

Im no expert but if your LR was not out of water for long or at all then i suppose the cycle can be short, however i normally hear of people saying weeks and mine took at least 2. Your cuc dont add to much bio load (if thats the right term) and that maybe why the lfs said it would be ok to add fish soon but we all know that the lfs can be indifferent at the best of times and their job is to sell you things! Its good to see you on here I am still learning and am on here a lot just reading. Someone will give better advice than me but as you seem to know about testing then i would check for the next week and see what happens as every tank is different.

 

[crazysilverwolf]

For better or worse i used the water already in the tank i cleaned all the tropical stuff and then cleaned the filters several times over a few days so i know the exact condition of the water before it started, the live rock went in day one and a few days later a second load to a total of 27-28 kgs, your right though the live rock came straight from a running tank. seems every LFS has different advice, i'm just looking for a decent Lfs with decent prices and genuine fish welfare. one set of advice for every shop.

 

[seffieuk]

Glad you are finding our help useful we don't have anything to sell, but lfs do, not to say they are all bad, of course they are not, there are some cracking ones out there but sometimes they can be difficult to find in your own area.

If live rock comes from an established tank with no issues and is transported in water for a short period of time it is perfectly possible not to have any cycle at all, so yes, you are right

Seffie x

 

[crazysilverwolf]

How does that work with the fish now, is it really feasable to have two clowns in the tank in three days?

Not trying to anger the Lfs, just would expect them to all read from the same hymm book. I just went into the shop with a clear idea of what i wanted and ended up coming out confused and that seems to be the case everytime i ask a question.

So here goes to people who are not selling me things.

What skimmer, pump? looking to upgrade before i go much further, my current not up to the task. thoughts on the 'MariSys 240 Eco Marine Filtration System'

 

[sorgan]

My way of dealing with LFS is just tell them what you want, if they won't give it to you without selling you an expensive (useless) bit of kit then go else where.

After a while you will find somewhere that is staffed with people who are honest and you will be sorted, my LFS is a gift from god

 

[crazysilverwolf]

I have found a place which is helpful but he admits himself he's not great with marine and just knows the basics. think i'll just be making a pest of myself on here, asking loads and loads of questions.

 

[-Nemo-]

We won't mind.

 

[xxBarneyxx]

I have found a place which is helpful but he admits himself he's not great with marine and just knows the basics. think i'll just be making a pest of myself on here, asking loads and loads of questions.

I would prefer that to someone that pretends to know what they are talking about and ends up giving really bad advice.

If the cycle is finished in theory you could get fish now. Personally I would wait and see how the CUC settle in for a week first but that's just me.

With regards to your pumps/skimmer question. What size is your tank and what are you planning to do with it (fish only, soft corals, hard corals, etc)? Also what is your budget?

For fish only you need at least X10 the tank volume in turn over from pumps (10 is bear min, personally I would go for 15-20 times tank volume). For Soft corals and LPS (which is what most people eventually get into) you need at least X20 turn over (again I would go for X25) and for SPS corals you need at least X30 or more (though I wouldnt recommend SPS to begin with).

I would highly recommend the koralia range of powerheads. I have been using them for about 4 or 5 years now (since I got into marines) and they are very good. If you have a lot of money take a look at the vortex M10, M20 and M40 (depending on the size of your tank), these I would say are the best you can get at the moment but they cost and arm and a leg (and a kidney too!). If your on a budget then check out ebay for SunSun power heads. They are basically Koralia knock offs but are apparently pretty darn good.

Regarding a skimmer. Do you have a sump on the tank? If so you get a few more options. Depending on what size your tank is (and again your budget) I would recommend looking for a second hand deltec skimmer. As above though the equipment choices really depend on the tank size and what you plan to keep.


Definitely ask loads of questions and read up as much as you can. One of the biggest difficulties I had when coming into marine from the tropical side was that there is so much different information and sometimes it is completely conflicting.

With tropical fish there are normally tons of sites out there with very detailed information on them. With marine (particularly with some corals) there is very little information at all and there are so many different ways to successfully do something. The only thing to do is to read up as much as you can, talk to people that have been keeping similar livestock and tank styles to what you want and then make your own mind up.

Also don't forget to take things slowly. Its very, very easy to get carried away but marine tanks are really not very forgiving of mistakes.

 

[steelhealr]

LFS ≠ smarts.

Experience is your best teacher and you can find it....RIGHT HERE.

SH

 

[crazysilverwolf]

Thanks barney, alot of sense there,

I have a 200ltr fluval tank currently have a fluval 205 external filter on full of LR, i did have a skimmer running but the bloody thing leaked all over the floor (aqua one). i've sent it back to the LFS and they are sending me a v2 400 version skimmer which will be mounted on the display tank until i get my sump built,

The tank contains at present about 30kg of LR which is now returning to its origonal colour after all going brown. 8 snails 2 crabs and 2 shrimp.

I will now be leaving the tank for a bit untill i'm certain nothings wrong and then i'll get a couple of clown fish.

Already had to leave the kids at home when i go to the LFS as they want everything

I do want the tanks occupants to survive so i will be going slow and steady,

 

[Pearsondesign]

your filter is full of live rock?
surely this isnt a good idea, doesnt live rock need lighting to stay "live"

 

[xxBarneyxx]

your filter is full of live rock?
surely this isnt a good idea, doesnt live rock need lighting to stay "live"

No it doesnt need light. Live rock refers to rock that is home to the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate eating bacteria. Live rock generally has loads of other critters in it as well and a lot of people do use an external filter with live rock rubble in as a "cryptic" zone. The lack of light can encourage colonisation of filters feeders and other critters which not only adds biodiversity to the but also has some effect on filtering the water column.

All live rock needs to stay alive it food (fish food, fish waste, waste from critters, etc), water (obviously ), water movement (as described in my above post, at least X10 the tank volume) and heat (tropical temp range).


Silverwolf:
You haven't mentioned having any powerheads so this would be the highest priority. You have a 200L tank so for just basic filtration you need at least 2000lph of water movement. Ideally I would aim for X20 so that's 4000lph

Now ideally I would recommend having 2 or 3 smaller powerheads rather than one big one (unless the one big one is a vortex one ). Powerheads come in a couple of "flavours". These beging the old style "jet" type ones (such as the maxi jets) and the newer style turbine type ones (such as tunze and hydor ones). The turbine type ones are better as the water coming out of them is spread over a bigger area (so more water movement in the tank and not just one jet of water that it going to blast everyone in its path).

Just using ebay to get some examples:

http/cgi.ebay.co.uk/Hydor-Koralia-3-Powerhead-Circulation-Pump-/110555800848?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_Pet_Supplies_Fish&hash=item19bda3a510#ht_500wt_896
This pump would give you close to X20 water circulation just by itself. However when you only use one pump you end up with all the flow going in one direction (not good for corals) and you will get dead spots in the tank with no flow.

Personally I would go for 3 or 4 power heads doing around 1500lph each and dot them around the tank to create random flow patterns.
So for example X4:
http/cgi.ebay.co.uk/HYDOR-KORALIA-1-CIRCULATION-PUMP-1500-LITRES-HOUR-/230296671325?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_Pet_Supplies_Fish&hash=item359ec0545d#ht_2455wt_655

I used ebay just so you can look at them and get an idea of what you are looking at. You can pick them up a lot cheaper than this though second hand and there are also cheaper brand alternatives (sunsun for example http/www.allpondsolutions.co.uk/3000-litre-aquarium-wavemaker-powerhead-3139-0.html)

Our kids used to love going to the fish shop. Now they go and stay with nan as they hate being dragged over to the fish shop "again"

 

[crazysilverwolf]

Hi yeah do have power heads on order, 3x1000ltr, there will also be the return from the sump, Just ordered a sump tank to be built, quite small but enough to house skimmer uv and heater.

if i've missed anything shout up. cheers

 

[nick87]

For better or worse i used the water already in the tank i cleaned all the tropical stuff

You have used the water from a trop tank to start a marine?

If so had you ever used meds in the tank?