Lethargic Gourami

[RedSarah]

Hi all,
Two weeks ago, I posted about my Honey Gourami, Cheese, who I suspected had internal parasites. Now he has some new symptoms. He has been pale for about two weeks and had stringy poo, so I fed him food mixed with Seachem Metroplex, Focus and Garlic Guard to avoid medicating the whole tank. Did this for about a week. Medicated food didn't seem to be working, so I fasted him for a couple of days, removed carbon from filter, and added Praxipro to the tank on Monday (4/8). I have been feeding him spinach as well, and his poop is back to normal.

Now, he is increasingly lethargic and sinks to the substrate when there is no activity around the tank. If I walk up to the tank, he starts swimming actively, searches for food, picks at plants, and engages in normal behavior, but then suddenly sinks and stops moving again. Sometimes he leans to one side when he does this. He is definitely more active during the day. His fins are not clamped, and his tankmates (three Amano shrimp and nerite snails) are all acting normal. See tank parameters below..... Thank you!!!

The tank has been established for about a year and a half... I introduced my honey gourami to the tank about a year ago. Running an Aqueon Quietflow 10 internal filter, a heater, and an airstone.

Tank size: 5.5 gallons
pH: 7.4
ammonia: 0
nitrite: 0
nitrate: 5-10
kH:
gH:
tank temp: 78 degrees (F)

Fish Symptoms (include full description including lesion, color, location, fish behavior):
Pale, increasingly lethargic, looks a little weak/slow when he swims. Also looks a little thin, I can't tell but his spine might be a little bent/deformed? He has a good appetite, and is eating blanched spinach, NLS Thera-A pellets, and picks at algae in the tank. NO fin clamping, lesions, bloating, or visible fungus.

Volume and Frequency of water changes:
30% every other day

Chemical Additives or Media in your tank:
I dosed Praxipro on Monday, did a water change on Thursday and added another dose of Praxipro. I use Seachem Fertilizers (Flourish, Excel, Iron, Potassium, Phosphorus) and Seachem root tabs.

Tank inhabitants:
1 Honey Gourami, 3 Amano Shrimp, 2 Nerite snails

Recent additions to your tank (living or decoration):
New plants added on 3/12

Exposure to chemicals:
None

Digital photo (include if possible):
(please ignore the melting Anubias leaves lol, I recently changed light intensity)

he's leaning to one side at the bottom here:




and swimming/eating here:

 

[Colin_T]

Hi RedSarah.

Normally if there is an issue with the same fish, and it has occurred within a short time to a previous post about that fish, we recommend continuing the old post so the previous information is already there. However, you only have 2 threads so your other one was easy enough to find.

The fish has a sunken in area at the top of its head. This was not in the photos on your previous thread and could be an issue.

The gills that look a bit darker than they should be. This could be from chemicals in the water or just pale gill covers on the fish. However, the fish does look much paler than in your previous post and that could be from the new light or stress, probably stress.

The fish could be suffering from old age.

----------------------
If you're adding plant fertilisers to the tank, you should monitor the levels in the water before adding more. Iron test kits are available from some pet shops and can be used as a guide.

If there is still fertiliser in the water and you add another full dose, you can overdose the tank and poison the fish. The best way to use plant fertilisers in aquariums is to do a huge water change (75-90%) each week before adding another dose of fertiliser. The big water change will dilute any remaining fertiliser and then you can add a full dose. This helps prevent overdosing.

----------------------
Do you have any floating plants in the tank?

Gouramis and Bettas are surface dwelling fishes that naturally live under the surface. They hide among the floating plants and pick up insects that land on the water.

If you don't have any floating plants, the fish will stress out and hide at the bottom, which is what it looks like in one of the pictures. If you increased the light recently, that would also stress the fish.

----------------------
I would add some Water Sprite plants to the tank. It is a floating plant that grows rapidly on the surface and can also be planted in the substrate. I would grow it on the surface and it will reduce the light and make the fish feel more secure.

You can confine the water sprite or any floating plant by taking a length of airline (or plastic hose) and joining the ends together with a plastic airline connector to form a loop. Put an airline suction cup on the glass away from the filter and tie a piece of string to the loop and the suction cup. The loop should float and you can put the plants in the loop to confine them. The string will allow the loop to move up and down then you do water changes.

I would also stop adding plant fertilisers for a couple of weeks and do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate every day for a week. This will reduce any nutrients, chemicals and disease organisms in the water and should help the fish.
Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it is added to the tank.

Clean the filter if it hasn't been done in the last 2 weeks. Wash filter materials in a bucket of tank water.

----------------------
How old is the fish food?
If it is flake food and the container has been open for more than 2 months, get rid of it and buy some new food. You want to use up the dry flake and pellet fish foods within 1 month. If you can't get small containers, then get a new container of food and take a small amount out and put it in a separate container. Put the remaining food into a zip lock bag and get all the air out of it. Seal the bag up and put it in a couple more zip lock bags. Get all the air out and seal them up. Put the bag of food in the freezer or in a dark, cool dry place. Use up the small amount of food and then take some more from the bag that is sealed up.

You should feed the fish 3-5 times a day for a few weeks. The extra feedings will help the fish to build up some reserves and might help.

If you don't use frozen food you can try some. Raw or cooked prawn/ shrimp is an ideal food for conditioning fish. You should use cooked prawn because you have live shrimp in the tank and cooked prawn won't have diseases.

You can buy a small packet of river prawn from a fishing store or supermarket and keep them in the freezer. Take out 1 prawn and defrost it. Remove the head, shell and gut (thin black tube in the body), and throw these bits away. Use a pr of scissors to cut the remaining prawn into small bits. Offer 1 or 2 pieces at a time and feed the fish until it is full. Then remove uneaten food.

You can buy frozen brineshrimp, daphnia, bloodworms and marine mix (prawn, fish, squid) or marine green mix (prawn, fish squid and veges) from pet shops. You keep the food in the freezer and take out 1 block and cut it into little bits and offer a few bits at a time. Feed fish until it is full then remove uneaten food.

You can add the juice from orange and purple fruits to the fish food. Apricots, orange squash, pumpkin, orange and purple carrots, and blueberries can all be used. The orange and purple foods/ juice have anti-oxidants in and can help boost the fish's immune system. You simply soak the food in the juice for a minute and then feed the fish.

 

[RedSarah]

Hi RedSarah.

Normally if there is an issue with the same fish, and it has occurred within a short time to a previous post about that fish, we recommend continuing the old post so the previous information is already there. However, you only have 2 threads so your other one was easy enough to find.

The fish has a sunken in area at the top of its head. This was not in the photos on your previous thread and could be an issue.

The gills that look a bit darker than they should be. This could be from chemicals in the water or just pale gill covers on the fish. However, the fish does look much paler than in your previous post and that could be from the new light or stress, probably stress.

The fish could be suffering from old age.

----------------------
If you're adding plant fertilisers to the tank, you should monitor the levels in the water before adding more. Iron test kits are available from some pet shops and can be used as a guide.

If there is still fertiliser in the water and you add another full dose, you can overdose the tank and poison the fish. The best way to use plant fertilisers in aquariums is to do a huge water change (75-90%) each week before adding another dose of fertiliser. The big water change will dilute any remaining fertiliser and then you can add a full dose. This helps prevent overdosing.

----------------------
Do you have any floating plants in the tank?

Gouramis and Bettas are surface dwelling fishes that naturally live under the surface. They hide among the floating plants and pick up insects that land on the water.

If you don't have any floating plants, the fish will stress out and hide at the bottom, which is what it looks like in one of the pictures. If you increased the light recently, that would also stress the fish.

----------------------
I would add some Water Sprite plants to the tank. It is a floating plant that grows rapidly on the surface and can also be planted in the substrate. I would grow it on the surface and it will reduce the light and make the fish feel more secure.

You can confine the water sprite or any floating plant by taking a length of airline (or plastic hose) and joining the ends together with a plastic airline connector to form a loop. Put an airline suction cup on the glass away from the filter and tie a piece of string to the loop and the suction cup. The loop should float and you can put the plants in the loop to confine them. The string will allow the loop to move up and down then you do water changes.

I would also stop adding plant fertilisers for a couple of weeks and do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate every day for a week. This will reduce any nutrients, chemicals and disease organisms in the water and should help the fish.
Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it is added to the tank.

Clean the filter if it hasn't been done in the last 2 weeks. Wash filter materials in a bucket of tank water.

----------------------
How old is the fish food?
If it is flake food and the container has been open for more than 2 months, get rid of it and buy some new food. You want to use up the dry flake and pellet fish foods within 1 month. If you can't get small containers, then get a new container of food and take a small amount out and put it in a separate container. Put the remaining food into a zip lock bag and get all the air out of it. Seal the bag up and put it in a couple more zip lock bags. Get all the air out and seal them up. Put the bag of food in the freezer or in a dark, cool dry place. Use up the small amount of food and then take some more from the bag that is sealed up.

You should feed the fish 3-5 times a day for a few weeks. The extra feedings will help the fish to build up some reserves and might help.

If you don't use frozen food you can try some. Raw or cooked prawn/ shrimp is an ideal food for conditioning fish. You should use cooked prawn because you have live shrimp in the tank and cooked prawn won't have diseases.

You can buy a small packet of river prawn from a fishing store or supermarket and keep them in the freezer. Take out 1 prawn and defrost it. Remove the head, shell and gut (thin black tube in the body), and throw these bits away. Use a pr of scissors to cut the remaining prawn into small bits. Offer 1 or 2 pieces at a time and feed the fish until it is full. Then remove uneaten food.

You can buy frozen brineshrimp, daphnia, bloodworms and marine mix (prawn, fish, squid) or marine green mix (prawn, fish squid and veges) from pet shops. You keep the food in the freezer and take out 1 block and cut it into little bits and offer a few bits at a time. Feed fish until it is full then remove uneaten food.

You can add the juice from orange and purple fruits to the fish food. Apricots, orange squash, pumpkin, orange and purple carrots, and blueberries can all be used. The orange and purple foods/ juice have anti-oxidants in and can help boost the fish's immune system. You simply soak the food in the juice for a minute and then feed the fish.

Thanks for the awesome info, Colin_T -- and I will make sure to post on an existing related thread rather than making a new one in the future!

I'm not sure why the top of his head looks sunken, it has definitely developed since he has been sick. I'm so stumped about his illness since his tankmates are all doing well (especially the shrimp, since they are so sensitive). I got my Gourami from my LFS, so I imagine he was pretty young and doubt this is due to old age.

I was worried about the fertilizers and have been doing very frequent water changes these last couple of weeks, but I will ease up on the ferts for now. I'm also going to increase my routine 50% weekly water changes to 75% from now on.

I don't have floating plants but will pick some up from my LFS! I actually decreased the light intensity (I was struggling to control green hair algae) so I doubt the light is stressing him; however, I did prune some taller plants a few weeks ago so adding floating plants sounds like solid advice.

As for food, the pellets are brand new so no worries there - I will definitely freeze the extra food though, it would take my little Honey Gourami ten lifetimes to go through that entire container lol. I appreciate the advice on frozen food, it has been on my list to purchase but I wasn't sure what kind to get.

Thanks again!! Hopefully Cheese will pull through, sadly he's looking worse tonight and is laying on the bottom... but I'm determined to get him better.

 

[RedSarah]

Well, I just checked on Cheese and he isn't looking good... He can't swim well at all, spirals to the bottom of the tank and floats listlessly. He wont/can't eat, even if I cup him in my hand near the surface. I'm considering euthanizing him because I don't want him to suffer all night, but he's still got a little life in him.

 

[Colin_T]

If the fish is spinning/ spiralling through the water then it has a protozoan or bacterial infection in the brain and there isn't much you can do to fix it. I would euthanise the fish if it's spiralling through the water.

 

[RedSarah]

I put poor Cheese out of his misery, thank you for all your help, Colin_T