Kmur's Cycle Journal

[kmur]

Kmur - Hope all is well outside your tank. Sounds like its moving on nicely inside!

Just a persistent headache, nothing serious! Frustrating at the most.

 

[OldMan47]

Timers are just too easy for a computer geek Kmur. They are nothing but simple mechanical bistable devices. It is very easy to get too much light if you don't hold your lighting down to 8 to 10 hours daily. That is where I start but I have some tank lights turned all the way down to about 5 hours to keep algae under control in those tanks. Each tank seems to be a case unto itself.
Timmy, my statement is way too simple for your analysis. I have seen no evidence for algae being exempt from the 3 or 4 hour minimum photoperiod but have seen lots of people who believe that algae does not require such a period. If those people were completely wrong, I would expect some of them to have caught on by now.

 

[Timmy_Bee]

Gotcha. Sorry

 

[kmur]

Holy crud, ammonia drops fast when it starts dropping! I topped it off to 4ppm yesterday.

Last test:
Ammonia: 4.0ppm
Nitrite: 0.5ppm

This morning (24 hours later:

Ammonia: 0.8ppm
Nitrite: 0.8ppm

This is the breaking point. From here on out, I imagine the nitrites will always he higher

 

[Timmy_Bee]

looks like your getting close to the imfamous 'Double Zeros'

 

[kmur]

Ok - My first hiccup. I had something unexpected happen.

At this point, it might be relevant to say that I am using Sera liquid test kits, and I always shake each reagent carefully.

I did not test yesterday (bad me!) but went back to my normal testing this morning...

My ammonia is down to 0.2ppm from it's previously tested 0.3ppm

My nitrite though? That's what I'm lost on - It's only testing out to be about 0.4ppm, when it tested at 0.9ppm two days ago.

Since the nitrite is supposed to be spiking, and my ammonia is still at a point where it takes a few days to get town to 0, I don't understand why this has happened. Anybody have some insight? I checked my pH to make sure nothing was out of line, it's at 7.5. I have not done any water changes or anything like that. Has my cycle gotten stuck in reverse or something? o.o

 

[kmur]

Tested it again, about 10 hours after the last test:

Ammonia: 0.1ppm
Nitrite: 0.1ppm
pH: 7.5
Nitrate: 15ppm (first time testing since initial setup

I added my 4ppm of ammonia, as well as some plant food (had not been added previously.) Still really, really confused about whats going on here. Kind of looks like what it's SUPPOSED to look like in three weeks

 

[kmur]

Here, I went high-tech and started using excel. I am still really lost as to how there was a drop in my nitrite, and am hoping someone can help me put some reason behind it.

Yesterday night, after doing the 12-hours-later test (which I did purely for the sake of wonder,) I added more ammonia. I also added an iron/k2O mix for the sake of my poor little adopted plants that are trying to endure the cycle.

On an unrelated note, but a note I am putting here because it's not worthy of its own thread and it's still related to my tank;

I still want my Celestial Pearl Danios, and I fully intend to get probably 8 or 10 of them. I originally wanted them to be my only mid-range dweller, but I've really started to like the ember tetras as well. From what I've read, they're pretty non-aggressive. And from what I've seen, they're a lot more bold and outgoing than the celestials. And, while I was against them at first, the Corys have really gotten to me. They almost look like they're playing together, and it's adorable. My current planned stock list (and it's rough,)

8 Celestial Pearl Danios
8 Ember Tetras
1 Loricaria simillima
6 Cories (Haven't decided on type yet. Probably Panda or Pygmy, maybe Green/Bronze)

I think that would make it quite fully stocked, and I think everyone there should be compatible. My only concern is that the embers and celestials are both middle-dwellers, and they might feel a bit cramped. Also, if that isn't stocked fully, I'll probably had two or three more of both of my middle dwellers.

My planned final specs are:
pH: 7.5
Temperature: 77

and it is a 32g Long, which I am treating as a 28 gallon due to the fact that I have a somewhat thick substrate layer since I want to do a lot of plants.

 

[Timmy_Bee]

Im no stocking expert, but you could prob squeeze a couple more in there if needs be. Probably good to start with the above, and when you're in the habit of water changes etc you can eek the numbers up (but not by that much)

As for the spike, the thing i would say is there is a reason why we do 'qualifying weeks' - either the test if having an odd day, or blips in the levels can lul you into a false sense of security. I would carry on and not worry about it - these things happen

 

[waterdrop]

I was looking at your fishless cycle chart up there and was going to say that it just didn't make much sense to me and that I really couldn't interpret it but then I finally realized that it's really only a tad over two weeks and realized that really it doesn't look all that strange for a fishless cycle that's starting off a bit slowly, despite some fast initial drops when ammonia is dosed. It looks to me like its having some trouble reaching the point where ammonia begins to drop quickly to zero each day. The nitrite is just doing a little blipping around and hasn't really started yet. This fishless cycle appears not to have moved out of the first phase yet, of the three.

I have no reason to think there are any problems with a Sera test kit but I'm unfamiliar with them. I assume that is why we're seeing number down to tenths? We don't usually see these simple liquid test kits trying to show number any more finely grained that 0.25 or 0.30 or so.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[kmur]

I was looking at your fishless cycle chart up there and was going to say that it just didn't make much sense to me and that I really couldn't interpret it but then I finally realized that it's really only a tad over two weeks and realized that really it doesn't look all that strange for a fishless cycle that's starting off a bit slowly, despite some fast initial drops when ammonia is dosed. It looks to me like its having some trouble reaching the point where ammonia begins to drop quickly to zero each day. The nitrite is just doing a little blipping around and hasn't really started yet. This fishless cycle appears not to have moved out of the first phase yet, of the three.

I have no reason to think there are any problems with a Sera test kit but I'm unfamiliar with them. I assume that is why we're seeing number down to tenths? We don't usually see these simple liquid test kits trying to show number any more finely grained that 0.25 or 0.30 or so.

~~waterdrop~~

On the test kits for ammonia, it goes from 0.0, to 0.5, to 1.0, then in whole numbers. However, there is a pretty great color difference between the .5 intervals, so it's easy to guesstimate where you're at. It's definitely not a precise number, but close.

The cycle started a week before the chart - I was waiting on test kits to come, so I dosed the tank up to 5ppm of ammonia with a calculator, and just let it do its thing for a week. So I am through about three weeks of testing, and I think it's just a little slow.

Thank you for the reassurance that things are normal.

 

[waterdrop]

I don't see temp readings in your chart. Have you been maintaining the 88F you mentioned at the beginning? I believe Tim had some quibbles with that - I might try to make sure that comes down more to 84F or so. Also, since something seems to have moderated the high tap pH consistently down to 7.5 I might consider a teaspoon of bicarb, especially since the cycle is being slow.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[kmur]

I don't see temp readings in your chart. Have you been maintaining the 88F you mentioned at the beginning? I believe Tim had some quibbles with that - I might try to make sure that comes down more to 84F or so. Also, since something seems to have moderated the high tap pH consistently down to 7.5 I might consider a teaspoon of bicarb, especially since the cycle is being slow.

~~waterdrop~~

I did not record the temperature due to its consistency It's always at 88, I frequently check I will lower it a little bit.

Looking at my chart, I think I might have incorrectly tested my pH or something. I'm going to check my tap water again (as we speak,) and see if I messed up. The tap water was the first thing I tested, so I might have tested incorrectly. I trust you, but I like to know science - Why would the higher pH help?

//edit

My original tap pH WAS correct. It's actually a little higher than 8.5, maybe 8.7. Now I'm really curious what is causing that to drop! I'm glad it does since I need a lower pH for the fish I want, but still. Weird.

Today, I've got
Ammonia: 0.1ppm
Nitrite: 0.2ppm

Normally, I'd top off on ammonia right now, but I'll see if I can't let it get to actual 0 this time.

 

[kmur]

I put my brain in to it, and I think I figured out what is causing the lower pH.

The answer is "Stupidity and Force of Habit." Every time I do a water change in my betta tank, I condition the water. I use a dechlorinator and blackwater extract. It didn't occur to me NOT to use the blackwater extract, since I'm so used to using it with the betta, and it says right on the bottle that it effect pH. A lesson learned!

I have the dumb. Teaches me to not put actually thought behind my movements.

 

[kmur]

Yey, my first almost-24-hour ammonia drop! Yesterday morning, I added 4ppm of ammonia, and today I am almost down to zero. Exciting! I also did a partial water change before I added the ammonia, to help remove some of the blackwater extract that I shouldn't have added.

Also, in my fishie ramblings... It's breakin' my heart, but I think I might have to abandon the plan that I was dead-set on from the very start. I don't think I should get the celestial pearl danios. I REALLY love them, but the group at my LFS (which is in a pretty spacious tank with plenty of room to hide and no tankmates to scare them, and have been there for about two weeks) still cower and hide when someone walks by. Since there's quite a bit of traffic in the room my tank will be in, I think it might almost be cruel to put such a timid fish in there. =/ Maybe next summer I'll set up a smaller tank in my office where its a lot calmer and get some, but this tank is in my animal room - A room with critters who are constantly hopping around, and my boyfriend and I are constantly in and out cleaning, feeding, petting, playing... Just doesn't seem right. But now this means I don't have to avoid other quick-moving fish in the tank, so I have some options. I still really like the ember tetras, and they are not timid at all (they've got some bigger fish in the tank they're kept in, and they have no fear of them. They also come to the glass to see you when you walk by ) I'll probably up my school of them to 15 fish, and then might consider some gouramis or some dwarf rainbows. I will need to do more research in to both as well as other options, since I didn't bother since I was so dead-set on my tiny little guys and didn't want any larger fish to spook them