KH, GH, PH???

[Su Tac]

I've been told I need to use Aquadur.

I am doing a 'fish in' cycle, 4 weeks in.

60l tank

6 Black Phantom Tetras

Various live plants

Temp 78°

Ammonia is reading 0.2 every day (in tank but also from tap!)

Doing a 20l water change daily

Adding Seachem Prime and bottled bacteria with every water change.

Never seen any Nitrates or Nitrites

Tank and tap levels for PH, KH & GH are below.

I have read the instructions on the Aquadur and am totally confused!!

Some specific instruction would be gratefully received right now

Tap Water
PH 7-8
KH 2
GH 4

Tank Water
PH 7-8
KH 3
GH 6

 

[Essjay]

I googled Aquadur (the JBL product) and it is a product designed mainly for use with reverse osmosis water, which needs some minerals added back if used as 100% RO. It can be used with very soft water, but it is not necessary if you stay with fish that need soft water. And at GH 4dH your tap water is not terribly soft. My tap water is only a bit harder than yours at 5.6dH and I do not add any product like this. Black phantoms are fine down to 1 dH.
The low tap KH could possibly cause the pH to crash if you do not do enough water changes, but if you do 50%+ a week (once you are certain the tank has cycled), that should keep KH topped up.
The downside to products like this is that you have to use them at every water change, forever. It is much easier to use plain dechlorinated tap water, and keep fish that need the same hardness as that tap water. If this were my tank, I would stop using the Aquadur; your daily 20l water changes will slowly remove it all.


If it was a shop that told you to use Aquadur, they want you to spend money - or have little understanding of the requirements of fish. If you wanted to keep hard water fish, then yes, you would need it but not for soft water fish like the fish you have.


If the live plants are growing well, they are probably using most, if not all, of the ammonia in the tank. Plants do not convert ammonia into nitrite or nitrate, and your zero levels do suggest the plants are removing the ammonia. If they weren't, I'd expect your ammonia reading to be higher than the tap level together with nitrite and later nitrate showing up.

 

[Byron]

Essjay nailed it. Do not use the Aquadur, do a major water change to get rid of most of it, use a good conditioner (Prime is OK for now but when it is gone there are better, I can explain if asked) but no more than needed for the volume of water changed. No other additives needed. The bacterial supplement probably won't hurt, but I'd want to know the plant species and numbers as these may be more than adequate. Fast growers certainly, slow growing plants less rapid at using ammonia, but you are not going to have much from six little tetras anyway.

 

[Su Tac]

I googled Aquadur (the JBL product) and it is a product designed mainly for use with reverse osmosis water, which needs some minerals added back if used as 100% RO. It can be used with very soft water, but it is not necessary if you stay with fish that need soft water. And at GH 4dH your tap water is not terribly soft. My tap water is only a bit harder than yours at 5.6dH and I do not add any product like this. Black phantoms are fine down to 1 dH.
The low tap KH could possibly cause the pH to crash if you do not do enough water changes, but if you do 50%+ a week (once you are certain the tank has cycled), that should keep KH topped up.
The downside to products like this is that you have to use them at every water change, forever. It is much easier to use plain dechlorinated tap water, and keep fish that need the same hardness as that tap water. If this were my tank, I would stop using the Aquadur; your daily 20l water changes will slowly remove it all.


If it was a shop that told you to use Aquadur, they want you to spend money - or have little understanding of the requirements of fish. If you wanted to keep hard water fish, then yes, you would need it but not for soft water fish like the fish you have.


If the live plants are growing well, they are probably using most, if not all, of the ammonia in the tank. Plants do not convert ammonia into nitrite or nitrate, and your zero levels do suggest the plants are removing the ammonia. If they weren't, I'd expect your ammonia reading to be higher than the tap level together with nitrite and later nitrate showing up.

Oh at last, some information that makes sense . My plants are growing incredibly well, so that fits. My only question then is that I've been told I need to wait for a nitrite spike then nitrates before my tank is considered cyvled and I can therefore add more fish?

 

[Su Tac]

Essjay nailed it. Do not use the Aquadur, do a major water change to get rid of most of it, use a good conditioner (Prime is OK for now but when it is gone there are better, I can explain if asked) but no more than needed for the volume of water changed. No other additives needed. The bacterial supplement probably won't hurt, but I'd want to know the plant species and numbers as these may be more than adequate. Fast growers certainly, slow growing plants less rapid at using ammonia, but you are not going to have much from six little tetras anyway.

My plants are growing well, so hopefully that will be why, I'd definitely like the name of a good conditioner please

 

[Essjay]

If there are enough fast growing plants, and they are growing well, you'll never see a nitrite spike. The plants will use all the ammonia made by the fish, fish waste etc, and they do not turn it into nitrite so there is none to be turned into nitrate. There is a potential for nitrate in the tank if there is some in the tap water.
The reason Byron mentioned about what the plants are is to make sure they are fast growers and that you have enough of them to use all the ammonia. At the moment with only a few fish, they may be more than enough but as you increase the numbers of fish, if they are slow growing plants they may not be able to cope the ammonia made by a fully stocked tank.

 

[Byron]

My plants are growing incredibly well, so that fits. My only question then is that I've been told I need to wait for a nitrite spike then nitrates before my tank is considered cyvled and I can therefore add more fish?

Without live plants, this is true, as you are then relying on the colonization and multiplication of various nitrifying bacteria. But plants are very different. I still want to know what plant species you have, and how many...a photo of the tank would answer this if you can. But to explain:

Plants need nitrogen and they prefer ammonium. They will rapidly take up ammonia/ammonium [ammonia in acidic water becomes ammonium] and no nitrite is produced, so that will remain zero in tests. Nitrates may eventually appear, it depends upon the plants, fish load, time; but it should not be much so we can leave that for the moment. Fast growing plants use more nutrients including ammonia/ammonium, and floating plants are the best for this. Slower growing plants use less, which is why I asked about the plant species/numbers. With plants, the nitrifying bacteria will still appear but they will be "invisible" because the rapid uptake of ammonia/ammonium by plants out-competes them. Some call this a "silent cycle" because it still happens but tests don't detect it because the plants are doing most of it.

My plants are growing well, so hopefully that will be why, I'd definitely like the name of a good conditioner please

Prime is a good conditioner for some situations, such as new tanks or if you have ammonia, nitrite or nitrate in the tap (source) water. But otherwise, I would recommend something like API's Tap Water Conditioner. This one detoxifies chlorine and chloramine, and heavy metals. It does nothing else, so that means thee chemistry is less because you are not adding unnecessary chemicals/substances to the tank water.

This is important because everything we add to the water gets inside the fish, into the bloodstream and internal organs, and the more of this the more detrimental to the fish. Clean water with as few additives as absolutely necessary is better and will mean healthier fish because they will be less stressed not having to internally handle chemical substances that weaken them. The API TWC I mentioned is the most highly concentrated product available, so you use even less of it. A small bottle will last you months.

The messing about with ammonia/nitrite/nitrate by Prime is what bothers me. We are best to leave this to nature. Once the aquarium is biologically balanced, and provided we do not mess this up by dumping in this or that substance, over stocking, overfeeding, etc., we are safer to let nature do what it does best.

EDIT. Essjay posted while I was typing, we're saying the same of course.

 

[Colin_T]

I wouldn't worry about your GH and KH, it's fine for Black Phantom tetras.

Get a small bottle of distilled water and check the ammonia level in that. If it says 0.2, then your test kits is reading 0 ammonia as 0.2.

 

[Su Tac]

If there are enough fast growing plants, and they are growing well, you'll never see a nitrite spike. The plants will use all the ammonia made by the fish, fish waste etc, and they do not turn it into nitrite so there is none to be turned into nitrate. There is a potential for nitrate in the tank if there is some in the tap water.
The reason Byron mentioned about what the plants are is to make sure they are fast growers and that you have enough of them to use all the ammonia. At the moment with only a few fish, they may be more than enough but as you increase the numbers of fish, if they are slow growing plants they may not be able to cope the ammonia made by a fully stocked tank.

I know I've got quite a bit of moss the ones at the back are growing like wildfire....

 

[Byron]

That's a very lovely aquascape, nice work.

The back plants are a stem plant and they are usually fast growing, so you will have no issues here with "cycling."

 

[Su Tac]

That's a very lovely aquascape, nice work.

The back plants are a stem plant and they are usually fast growing, so you will have no issues here with "cycling."

Aww thank you, I may only be a month in but I'm totally addicted and saving for a bigger tank lol.

Java moss, java fern (Windelov?), anubias mini - but I can't remember the name of the big ones at the back lol.

So how will I know when my tank is ready for more fish. I'd love to get some blue dwarf gourami, just 2 makes and some male guppies??

 

[Byron]

Aww thank you, I may only be a month in but I'm totally addicted and saving for a bigger tank lol.

Java moss, java fern (Windelov?), anubias mini - but I can't remember the name of the big ones at the back lol.

So how will I know when my tank is ready for more fish. I'd love to get some blue dwarf gourami, just 2 makes and some male guppies??

A few things. First, guppies are livebearers and all livebearers must have moderately hard (or harder) water. Your water is soft, bordering on very soft, so forget livebearers. You have a multitude of suitable fish species for soft water though, so finding some will not be difficult.

That brings me to the tank size of 60 liters (15 gallons). What are the base dimensions, length and width? The surface area has a relationship to fish species; Black Phantoms are sedate (meaning not active swimmers) so the surface is less important than it would be for more active fish that like to swim "lengths" so to speak. Lots to choose from, and I would suggest staying with "nano" sized fish. This is a term used for fish that remain quite small, say under an inch at maturity. Phantoms don't really fit this, but they are sedate and will have no issues here, though you might want a couple more. Females have red adipose and ventral fins, males are black or dark grey on these fins. Having a mix roughly equal is best, so say 4 males and 4 females would be nice.

I would forget the gourami, due to space and the tetras. Nano fish like Ember tetras (staying in South America) that are a reddish-orange, in a group of 8-9 would work. Or if you want brighter red, one of the dwarf Rasbora species in the genus Boraras, like Boraras brigittae, also a group of 8-9.

There are also some nice pencilfish, have a look at Nannostomus eques (these swim at an angle and at or near the surface, but must have floating plants), or Nannostomus marginatus.

So far the fish I've mentioned will not fuss over the surface dimensions as they are all sedate. You really do not want active fish in this small a tank anyway, and they would annoy the sedate fish as well.

Shoaling fish (all mentioned are) need a group, and the entire group should be added together at the same time. They settle in much faster with less stress. And once these plants are growing, showing signs of growth which it seems they are now, adding fish is not going to make any issue, though I would do a species at a time. Maybe get a couple more Phantoms first, but a group of one of the others could be added with them and have no issues.

 

[Su Tac]

A few things. First, guppies are livebearers and all livebearers must have moderately hard (or harder) water. Your water is soft, bordering on very soft, so forget livebearers. You have a multitude of suitable fish species for soft water though, so finding some will not be difficult.

That brings me to the tank size of 60 liters (15 gallons). What are the base dimensions, length and width? The surface area has a relationship to fish species; Black Phantoms are sedate (meaning not active swimmers) so the surface is less important than it would be for more active fish that like to swim "lengths" so to speak. Lots to choose from, and I would suggest staying with "nano" sized fish. This is a term used for fish that remain quite small, say under an inch at maturity. Phantoms don't really fit this, but they are sedate and will have no issues here, though you might want a couple more. Females have red adipose and ventral fins, males are black or dark grey on these fins. Having a mix roughly equal is best, so say 4 males and 4 females would be nice.

I would forget the gourami, due to space and the tetras. Nano fish like Ember tetras (staying in South America) that are a reddish-orange, in a group of 8-9 would work. Or if you want brighter red, one of the dwarf Rasbora species in the genus Boraras, like Boraras brigittae, also a group of 8-9.

There are also some nice pencilfish, have a look at Nannostomus eques (these swim at an angle and at or near the surface, but must have floating plants), or Nannostomus marginatus.

So far the fish I've mentioned will not fuss over the surface dimensions as they are all sedate. You really do not want active fish in this small a tank anyway, and they would annoy the sedate fish as well.

Shoaling fish (all mentioned are) need a group, and the entire group should be added together at the same time. They settle in much faster with less stress. And once these plants are growing, showing signs of growth which it seems they are now, adding fish is not going to make any issue, though I would do a species at a time. Maybe get a couple more Phantoms first, but a group of one of the others could be added with them and have no issues.

That is absolutely fantastic, thank you so much, I'm off to look for some Boraras brigittae

I have 4 male and 2 female Phantoms atm as o a couple more females too