I'm sick and tired of people talking about the 'PH' a fish needs

[anewbie]

What does ec stand for? What is it measuring?

electrical conductivity. The way a TDS meter work (which is really just an ec meter) is it measure the amount of current in the water and then presume the level of disolved solids. I am not sure if there is a 'true' tds meter or if all tds meters are ec meters; i know that all the cheap tds meters (like you would buy on amazon) are ec meters.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

The thing about all this is that the fish live in the water and all that it contains. So EC/TDS is measuring what the total of those things are.


Pure water is a poor conductor of electricity. It is all the stuff dissolved in the water that conducts electricity in water. A conductivity meter has two probes. One emits a small level of current. How much of that current is received by the other probe is a function of all the other stuff in the water. What is being measured is the electrical conductivity of the water.

A TDS meter just takes that ec reading and applies a formula to convert the readings to ppm. I find it easier to understand ppm than the microsiemens used to measure ec. There are two potential conversion facyors used to do the conversion. One multiplies by 500 and other by 700. However, they are both based on the ED measurements.

My Bluelab monitor allows one to choose which of the two multiplication factors to use. I use the 500.

Which PPM/TDS scale should I use?

It depends on which “scale” your nutrient company uses during manufacturing. For example, Botanicare utilizes the 700 PPM scale. All Bluelab meters/pens read EC, PPM 500 (TDS), or PPM 700, allowing you to match your meter to your nutrient scale.

Is one scale better than another?

EC is the only true measurement and does not have to be converted so EC is always the same. If you use PPM/TDS, which is most popular in the US, you need to make sure your meter is set to the same scale your nutrient is using, since there are 2 different conversion formulas. In short, it’s best to use the scale that your nutrient manufacturer recommends.

edited for spelling and typos and to add the first sentence.

 

[Back in the fold]

What does ec stand for? What is it measuring?

Eerie Comics . What else ?

 

[anewbie]

Eerie Comics . What else ?

I thought it was eccentric comedians

 

[MaloK]

Eerie Comics . What else ?

Electro-Conductivity.

As far as I'm playing with them for a little while.

They read everything. from dissolved gazes, all nitrogen, tannin's, fertilizer, salts, decaying organics.

It will read even spit mixed with water. So I really think that they are absolutely killer tools, to find out if anything is building up it the water, no matter what.

So basically once my water is treated, mineralized, adjusted, fertilized, and I also add concentrated botanical...

I obtain an Eerie Comics reading that I take as the target water chemistry. That is what I want to stay the closest in the tank. Now that said the readings will always be higher in the tank no matter what. The overhead is caused by current activity processing byproducts.

This overhead can become quite impressive with large bioload. But It always stabilize for a good while before it start to grow again...

Where it stabilize is where you want it to stay... The length it remained is the interval of water changes, the quantity of water needed to bring EC to par is the quantity needed... Once known, you can divide in multiple smaller water changes.

In my understanding if an aquarium has balanced minerals and no other dangerous dilution buildup. Meaning you have not overstocked and your environment is dealing with the whole thing.

No water changes is needed.

 

[anewbie]

Electro-Conductivity.

As far as I'm playing with them for a little while.

They read everything. from dissolved gazes, all nitrogen, tannin's, fertilizer, salts, decaying organics.

It will read even spit mixed with water. So I really think that they are absolutely killer tools, to find out if anything is building up it the water, no matter what.

So basically once my water is treated, mineralized, adjusted, fertilized, and I also add concentrated botanical...

I obtain an Eerie Comics reading that I take as the target water chemistry. That is what I want to stay the closest in the tank. Now that said the readings will always be higher in the tank no matter what. The overhead is caused by current activity processing byproducts.

This overhead can become quite impressive with large bioload. But It always stabilize for a good while before it start to grow again...

Where it stabilize is where you want it to stay... The length it remained is the interval of water changes, the quantity of water needed to bring EC to par is the quantity needed... Once known, you can divide in multiple smaller water changes.

In my understanding if an aquarium has balanced minerals and no other dangerous dilution buildup. Meaning you have not overstocked and your environment is dealing with the whole thing.

No water changes is needed.

I don't know but i just measured the EC of one of my aquariums. It was a massive 21. That means I have 21 points of garbage polluting my water Probably at least 5 of those points is your spit

(the 21 is an accurate reading unless the pen is out of calibration)

And yes plants grow just fine and dandy in such water; to be honest what this tells me is i've been wasting my time all these years putting in fertilizers.

 

[MaloK]

I don't know but i just measured the EC of one of my aquariums. It was a massive 21. That means I have 21 points of garbage polluting my water Probably at least 5 of those points is your spit

(the 21 is an accurate reading unless the pen is out of calibration)

Not really how it works, loll, But 21 What... Microsiemens ?

That is nearly pure RO/DI water !?!

The water that goes in my shrimp tank already reads 375 Microsiemens and the tank is 435... I change water at 500. with water that is at 375...

So I run up to 125 garbage points before changing water.

 

[anewbie]

Not really how it works, loll, But 21 What... Microsiemens ?

That is nearly pure RO/DI water !?!

The water that goes in my shrimp tank already reads 375 Microsiemens and the tank is 435... I change water at 500. with water that is at 375...

So I run up to 125 garbage points before changing water.

Yea 21 micro thingy. That's what i use pure RO/DI water.... it is in the 8-10 range out of the ro system. These are blackwater fishes - they love very clean acidic water. They hate smelly old water. They are adorable couple who deserve the purist My only surprise is how well the plants do.

 

[MaloK]

The readings difference between your source and tank are the garbage point.

The closest you are to the source... The better you are.

 

[gwand]

Yea 21 micro thingy. That's what i use pure RO/DI water.... it is in the 8-10 range out of the ro system. These are blackwater fishes - they love very clean acidic water. They hate smelly old water. They are adorable couple who deserve the purist My only surprise is how well the plants do.

View attachment 348857

I’m trying to learn my fish. What is that beautiful fish’s genus and species? Thanks.

 

[anewbie]

I’m trying to learn my fish. What is that beautiful fish’s genus and species? Thanks.

Apistogramma sp Blutkehl

 

[Colin_T]

The thing about all this is that the fish live in the water and all that it contains. So EC/TDS is measuring what the total of those things are.

Yep, but it doesn't differentiate between the different items making up the total reading. What we need is a digital probe that tells us the GH, KH, pH, salinity, single celled algae, tannins and anything else it can read and provide a list of the items and their percentages. Now that would be a useful tool when out collecting or at home.

 

[MuddyWaters]

it's funny- I kept fish for years without knowing ANY of this stuff and they did well. The water is soft here, but I couldn't have told you that a few years back. I've kept lots of fish the wrong way- usually what I would keep are considered hardy fish, so that helped, but I don't remember having much trouble keeping them alive- except I'd always have a few die when I started the tank if I didn't be patient and give it a few weeks with 2 or 3 fish max- I didn't know why, I just knew if I put too many in right away, they'd die LOL.

I still break the rules some, but do try to adjust a bit based on what I've learned. At the end of the day, though, I'll go with my experience. My personal opinion is that there are so many variables in water conditions, combined with somewhat rudimentary methods of testing, that provide almost as many exceptions as rules.

If I got into the hobby now and started reading before I dove in, I'd be terrified. Ignorance truly was bliss in my case.

 

[Back in the fold]

it's funny- I kept fish for years without knowing ANY of this stuff and they did well. The water is soft here, but I couldn't have told you that a few years back. I've kept lots of fish the wrong way- usually what I would keep are considered hardy fish, so that helped, but I don't remember having much trouble keeping them alive- except I'd always have a few die when I started the tank if I didn't be patient and give it a few weeks with 2 or 3 fish max- I didn't know why, I just knew if I put too many in right away, they'd die LOL.

I still break the rules some, but do try to adjust a bit based on what I've learned. At the end of the day, though, I'll go with my experience. My personal opinion is that there are so many variables in water conditions, combined with somewhat rudimentary methods of testing, that provide almost as many exceptions as rules.

If I got into the hobby now and started reading before I dove in, I'd be terrified. Ignorance truly was bliss in my case.

I still do that to a certain degree . Never have worried about pH or hardness and the only reason I use R/O water is because the soft water fish I like do better in it but I’ve still done okay with them in my tap water . Maybe I have a good medium water here . Clean , fresh water is most important . I never miss water changes .

 

[GaryE]

By the time you learn you may have done things wrong, you are probably doing things right. The main effect of keeping softwater species in hardwater is slightly less colour, and a shorter life. Most people think species that can live 7-10 years are ancient at 3, so they don't notice the age issue.

Hardwater fish in low mineral water tend to die fast - their adaptations are more rigid. If you've seen a molly spinning, or going into the shimmies, you've seen that and hopefully learned why.

I'm happy avoiding species that won't like my water, and going from there. I only really get concerned about how soft water should be if I'm breeding rainforest fish. There, it really matters a lot. Fish can adapt - eggs not so well.