Kate's Fishless Cycle

Kate, congrats!

You know, it's funny, I was just sitting here thinking about the plant thing. They are really so slow, at least assuming you're not doing a planted tank with pressurized and all that, which I assume you're not. Roots on submerged plants are such a different thing, somewhat left over or having a lot to do with the period of the year when the plants are emergent (which the vast majority of the selections the hobby has ended up with are (well it would be hard to put a percentage on it, but a lot I'd say.) With non-aquatic terrestrials I think stimulation/need for a big strong root system is driven by the powerful need for water. But once plants evolved back into water environments water became readily available and could be absorbed all over the plant, so you see slower and less root development. Of course it varies widely by species.
WD, I always enjoy reading your posts and right at this moment, I still have water dripping off of my hands as I am half way through replanting my main display tank after an upgrade.. and I'm thinking "I think someone forgot to tell my plants that they're always underwater"! Even my Hygrophila have extensive root systems which keep them anchored in place, and don't get me started on the Crypts et al. I do think that for the most part, the roots' main function is anchorage.. but at the same time, a lot of rosette plants appear to benefit from root fertilisation, so they must retain at least some feeding function.

[I wrote that about 6 hours ago, just never got round to posting, planting is now complete and I'm going to have fun watching the plants survive at 0.6 wpg after they had been used to 1.2 wpg, at least until I can get some new lights. Thank god that the spare tubes which came with the tank were daylight instead of actinic and rosy.]
Yes, that's me with my coffee, yakking about stuff that plant evolutionists talk about and I agree that in practice you don't much of it. My swords and others have extensive root systems too. Anchoring againt water flow is still a big thing and there are also plenty of opportunities for nutrient pickup out in the natural world. For light I'm currently doing 1.04 (probably less because the tubes are old) and I can never keep track of what LL and the planted gang are doing, for all I know they are perfectly happy with things like .6 lol, have you kept up with them? WD
No, I don't follow them much.. My attitude to plants usually goes along the lines of "put them in and watch them grow, if they don't work, try another", I only started thinking in terms of scapes in the last two years or so (maybe it had something to do with me not working for a few months two years ago?), before that, my planting was such that the tank was more like a cut out of a river/pond bottom, with plants not being arranged in any way. That has worked for me with lighting of anything from just daylight through the window, 0.5 wpg, through 1-2 wpg and all the way to 4 wpg or so. My main concern now is that I have put all my eggs in one basket plants in one tank and some of them have only just settled into growing underwater so I hope the move is not too shocking for them.
 
KK: I'm curious if you have zero mineral content, a little, medium or a lot (purposely general since probably unlikely you have many records of your KH, GH and pH (I measure mine sometimes but am fairly haphazard about it unless I have a goal.) Dave Spencer and I have had a few discussions from time to time about people having very low mineral content (my case) having added difficulties with low-light tanks, whereas many with at least low mineral content have a much easier time, relatively and assuming similar care/knowledge of what they're doing. Anyway I keep taking a kind of informal tally in my head whenever I run across someone doing non-CO2 and commenting about their plantkeeping.

Kate, sorry for the hijack, lol.

~~waterdrop~~
 
I did a WC this afternoon of about 50%. I checked the ammonia beforehand and it stood at .50ppm. I didn't check anything else and now I'm regretting it as I'm now confused!

My 24 hour test has shown ammonia: 0ppm, nitrite: 0ppm, nitrate: 30ppm. What is this telling me? (My tapwater is 10ppm nitrate fyi). Why is my nitrite 0?
 
I did a WC this afternoon of about 50%. I checked the ammonia beforehand and it stood at .50ppm. I didn't check anything else and now I'm regretting it as I'm now confused!

My 24 hour test has shown ammonia: 0ppm, nitrite: 0ppm, nitrate: 30ppm. What is this telling me? (My tapwater is 10ppm nitrate fyi). Why is my nitrite 0?
You might very well be through the other side. Wait a few days to see if you're now into your qualifying week..

KK: I'm curious if you have zero mineral content, a little, medium or a lot (purposely general since probably unlikely you have many records of your KH, GH and pH (I measure mine sometimes but am fairly haphazard about it unless I have a goal.) Dave Spencer and I have had a few discussions from time to time about people having very low mineral content (my case) having added difficulties with low-light tanks, whereas many with at least low mineral content have a much easier time, relatively and assuming similar care/knowledge of what they're doing. Anyway I keep taking a kind of informal tally in my head whenever I run across someone doing non-CO2 and commenting about their plantkeeping.
You're in luck, I checked all my tanks a few days ago when I upgraded my main planted display. I have the sort of readings (consistently) which we tell beginners are impossible, and basically all my tanks have the same parameters (NB: all measurements in German degrees, where applicable):
Nitrate: 0 ppm
dGH: 18-21
dKH: 6
pH: 6.5-7.0, depending on tank (8.0 in Malawi tank)

..and now, let me amuse you with my tap water readings:
Ammonia: 0 ppm
Nitrite: 0 ppm
Nitrate: 0-5 ppm, depending on the day
dGH: 18-21
dKH: 6
pH: 7.0
Chloramine only, no chlorine, and I don't use a decholinator which deals with ammonia for small water changes.

The nitrate is so low, because my usual stocking tends to be about 1/4-1/3 of what many people I help on here put in their tanks and I do not feed very much at all, which is why the main benefit from water changes appears to add at least some nitrate for the plants.

In addition to that, I sometimes use a 0-0-20 root tab fertiliser, when I can remember to add some.

The biggest problem I have with the water is actually that most spawns have a high percentage of infertile eggs.
 
My ammonia was processing in 24 hours but for the last two nights it's been at .25ppm. I've been redosing it anyway (but taking into account the .25ppm). Is there a reason it's stopped processing it so quickly? Anything I might be doing wrong?
 
We do see this relatively often once nitrite is starting to be processed, while the bacteria numbers balance out. A gentle clean of the filter (just swishing the media in a bucket of tank water) and a large water change seem to help sort this out. But just waiting it out also seems to work in most cases. You really are almost into your qualifying week now.
 
Have you tried a water change yet?
 
Kate, totally ignore the Nitrate reading, its not relevant and will not cause any harm. Its a long term killer and only when its very high. The API testkit readings are very limited and even dark red on there will not cause your fish problems. Tap water shouldnt ever go over 60ppm so weekly water changes in the future will soon sort it out. Its just a waste of time and unecessary worry, trust meh, im a doctor. :hyper:

Good luck with the qualifying week, keep in mind that bacteria builds at an exponential rate, the further down the line you are the faster it forms.
 
Kate, keep in mind that we see lots of fishless cycles that take around 70 days. You're not that far past the halfway point of that. For your number of days your cycle is looking pretty good. It's already been trying to give you some double-zero days, which is a good sign. I agree with KK, we often see some backtracking by the A-Bacs but it will eventually go away. You are not doing anything wrong.

KK, I'm pretty sure your dGH is quite a bit higher than mine (no surprise, most everyone's is) but I'll have to re-test it as I haven't in a while. Thanks for the info, it reinforces some of the things I've been thinking.

~~waterdrop~~
 
KK, I'm pretty sure your dGH is quite a bit higher than mine (no surprise, most everyone's is) but I'll have to re-test it as I haven't in a while. Thanks for the info, it reinforces some of the things I've been thinking.
Mine is pretty much the highest the test will record :)
 
Day 47 (14.04): 23:00 Ammonia 0ppm Nitrite: 0ppm

Hopefully this means I'm back on track!
 
Day 47 (14.04): 23:00 Ammonia 0ppm Nitrite: 0ppm

Hopefully this means I'm back on track!

... or not.

Day 48 (15.04): 23:00 Ammonia: .25ppm Nitrite: .50ppm


Admittedly getting very frustrated now. My Nitrite has been processing like clockwork for ages and now it's stopped as well :angry:
 
To be honest, you're processing enough ammonia and nitrite for quite a large stock already. I would probably water change, plant up and add 1/2-2/3 stock of fish at this point.
 

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