Just thinking about it

[Lynnzer]

Is there a starter fluid of bacteria to get things moving?
Or, if not do I put some ammonia into the small tank with the stones and sand in, or food to turn to ammonia?

 

[PheonixKingZ]

Just know if you go through with this, it will take a lot of maintenance and a lot of time. (Especially if you have live coral)

 

[kiko]

acrylic? hell no...its super duper expensive at least in canada...
get a glass cutter on amazon or any hardware store
there's basically 3 types...a rolling cutter which looks like this:

these sell at home hardware and are the basic garbage cutters and go for around 10 bucks

then the oil ones that look like this:

you can find an oil based type cutter on amazon for about 15 bucks

then you have the T cutters which are nothing more than 2 pipes together and look like this:

won't even bother with the first one as it's garbage to me...

oil cutters will cut much better with less burr/cracking
and T cutters you can add a ruler/sticker on it for measuring and pretty much anything can be your working stand
but if you're not going to have much use for it after, just go with the 2nd one. can't go wrong with a cheap 15 bucks tool
to drill holes you can find bits on amazon too for 10 bucks a set

don't get the spear ones as they're actually crap....they're good for VERY stable tools like a drill table with no vibration
but garbage on a regular drill

if you never drilled glass...
get a spray bottle...give it a couple squirts on the spot you want to drill use one hand to sit on the glass and act as a holder/guide and the other one to power the drill
(make sure your holding/guide hand has a glove specially if you're going to practice on a garbage piece)
the hand being used as a holder/guide is to prevent the drill jumping and scratching the glass more than you want it to

make the cut in an angle...
once it cuts through the glass a bit...start lifting the drill to have it standing straight up...
the weight of the drill will be enough to cut the glass
no need to press/push or try to force it as doing so can cause cracks/chips
and make sure you tape the other side in case you have a heavy drill to prevent the glass chipping or to prevent the glass just dropping
and if you want to make a hole and make sure you don't break the glass...use a rotary tool...I've never broken a single piece of glass using one...
they're not the fastest for hole drilling but work for stuff you 100% don't want to break
you can literally just grind the glass until you pierce a hole then just keep grinding inside it round and round to make it bigger to whatever size you want it to be
VERY effective but time consuming
you can find a rotary tool whole kit set anywhere....hardware store...amazon...ebay...should be around 40-60 bucks

and as for the refugium idea...you might as well make the whole sump in your cabinet and just drill your tank...
keep in mind that small fry will always go into the overflow with a cabinet sump

ps: be careful... no hobby is worth your health

 

[Colin_T]

Is there a starter fluid of bacteria to get things moving?
Or, if not do I put some ammonia into the small tank with the stones and sand in, or food to turn to ammonia?

Yes there are liquid filter bacteria additives for saltwater tanks. Get them from most pet shops or online.

Alternatively, add some ammonia to the tank/ container and cycle it the same way you cycle a freshwater tank.

 

[Lynnzer]

acrylic? hell no...its super duper expensive at least in canada...
get a glass cutter on amazon or any hardware store
there's basically 3 types...a rolling cutter which looks like this:
View attachment 167279
these sell at home hardware and are the basic garbage cutters and go for around 10 bucks

then the oil ones that look like this:
View attachment 167282
you can find an oil based type cutter on amazon for about 15 bucks

then you have the T cutters which are nothing more than 2 pipes together and look like this:
View attachment 167284


won't even bother with the first one as it's garbage to me...

oil cutters will cut much better with less burr/cracking
and T cutters you can add a ruler/sticker on it for measuring and pretty much anything can be your working stand
but if you're not going to have much use for it after, just go with the 2nd one. can't go wrong with a cheap 15 bucks tool
to drill holes you can find bits on amazon too for 10 bucks a set
View attachment 167286

don't get the spear ones as they're actually crap....they're good for VERY stable tools like a drill table with no vibration
but garbage on a regular drill

if you never drilled glass...
get a spray bottle...give it a couple squirts on the spot you want to drill use one hand to sit on the glass and act as a holder/guide and the other one to power the drill
(make sure your holding/guide hand has a glove specially if you're going to practice on a garbage piece)
the hand being used as a holder/guide is to prevent the drill jumping and scratching the glass more than you want it to

make the cut in an angle...
once it cuts through the glass a bit...start lifting the drill to have it standing straight up...
the weight of the drill will be enough to cut the glass
no need to press/push or try to force it as doing so can cause cracks/chips
and make sure you tape the other side in case you have a heavy drill to prevent the glass chipping or to prevent the glass just dropping
and if you want to make a hole and make sure you don't break the glass...use a rotary tool...I've never broken a single piece of glass using one...
they're not the fastest for hole drilling but work for stuff you 100% don't want to break
you can literally just grind the glass until you pierce a hole then just keep grinding inside it round and round to make it bigger to whatever size you want it to be
VERY effective but time consuming
you can find a rotary tool whole kit set anywhere....hardware store...amazon...ebay...should be around 40-60 bucks

and as for the refugium idea...you might as well make the whole sump in your cabinet and just drill your tank...
keep in mind that small fry will always go into the overflow with a cabinet sump

ps: be careful... no hobby is worth your health

Cheers Kiko but glass was considered but I can't use it. The tank has a rim that encroaches on the internal width so that I would need to bend the glass to get it in. I have cut glass before and it's slow but I would probably end up breaking at least one of the dividers.
I have found some clear polycarbonate sheeting, sort of like cardboard in structure and will give this a go. It was only a tenner so it's not a big loss if I cock it up.

 

[Lynnzer]

No, the bacteria are different species in saltwater compared to freshwater, and the freshwater types won't live in seawater and vice versa.

I took a look into 4 LFS's yesterday for ideas on setting things up.
One thing that struck me was that there's no difference in the bacteria between freshwater and marine. In fact a Google search shows that most liquid starters, even Prime is for use in both salt and freshwater. However I had already bought Aquacare Bio Boost that specifically says it's for marine aquariums on the bottle.
So now I have the Bio Boost, I presume I dose the tank accordingly, but after doing that is it necessary to "feed" the bacteria to get the ammonia going?
Another thing I found out is that LFS's who sell marine fish etc are tending to drop out of this due to the extremely expensive shipping costs. Even Maidenhead Aquatics are selling off all their marine fish and invertebrates etc and closing the marine dept down.

 

[Colin_T]

The companies that do the filter bacteria might be putting fresh and salt water species of bacteria in the bottle so they can sell it for fresh or saltwater tanks. It is easier than having 2 products (1 for fresh and 1 for salt).

The beneficial filter bacteria do need a regular source of food otherwise they go dormant and can eventually die off. The food source can be liquid ammonia, dry fish pellets, a piece of meat, or anything that breaks down in water. If you use meat or fish food, remove it after 24 hours so it doesn't rot and smell bad.

If the local shops are shutting down their marine departments, you might be able to get stuff at a discounted price. Ask them if they will give you a discount on any of the stuff.

 

[Lynnzer]

The companies that do the filter bacteria might be putting fresh and salt water species of bacteria in the bottle so they can sell it for fresh or saltwater tanks. It is easier than having 2 products (1 for fresh and 1 for salt).

The beneficial filter bacteria do need a regular source of food otherwise they go dormant and can eventually die off. The food source can be liquid ammonia, dry fish pellets, a piece of meat, or anything that breaks down in water. If you use meat or fish food, remove it after 24 hours so it doesn't rot and smell bad.

If the local shops are shutting down their marine departments, you might be able to get stuff at a discounted price. Ask them if they will give you a discount on any of the stuff.

As the beneficial bacteria needs food, then I suppose that flake fish food would be best. That's due to the likely presence of plankton in the seawater which I would like to keep alive.
I'll make a start on this right away with even more rock going into the tank to build up as much as possible.

 

[PheonixKingZ]

One thing that struck me was that there's no difference in the bacteria between freshwater and marine. In fact a Google search shows that most liquid starters, even Prime is for use in both salt and freshwater. However I had already bought Aquacare Bio Boost that specifically says it's for marine aquariums on the bottle.

Well, Prime isn’t a bacteria starter, it’s a declorinator. Prime can be used for both fresh and saltwater, but it’s not a bacteria starter.

 

[kiko]

Cheers Kiko but glass was considered but I can't use it. The tank has a rim that encroaches on the internal width so that I would need to bend the glass to get it in. I have cut glass before and it's slow but I would probably end up breaking at least one of the dividers.
I have found some clear polycarbonate sheeting, sort of like cardboard in structure and will give this a go. It was only a tenner so it's not a big loss if I cock it up.

I use a rotary tool for that...
shave the edge until it fits under the rim
plus you should shave the edges where it's going to sit on the silicone so it doesn't cut into it

 

[Lynnzer]

The perspex order should be with me today. Glass would have been nice but the perspex will do fine.
Every tube of silcone I've seen in the DIY shops are useless as they are all toxic. I went ahead and ordered some non toxic which should also arrive today but now I'm coming across suggestions that silicone is not a good long term soultion. It points to the use of epoxy.
Any experience of this please.

 

[Lajos_Detari]

Just know if you go through with this, it will take a lot of maintenance and a lot of time. (Especially if you have live coral)

Yes, fully agree.

I once thought of keeping marine fish but the maintenance time require and the costs made me give up.
If you are keeping fish only, it will be less work than keeping corals.

I live in a tropical country and I will definitely need a chiller if I want to keep corals.
I read from other fish forum that some chiller sounds like a washing machine(the loud noise) when you turn it on.
So, some of the fish keepers turn off the chiller at night.

Lastly, for live bacteria to start the aquarium, you can try Dr. Tim's Aquatics On and Only Live Nitrifying Bacteria for Reef Aquarium. It's different from the one for fresh water.

API Quick Start can be used for both freshwater and marine aquarium.

DR. TIM'S AQUATICS One & Only Live Nitrifying Bacteria for Reef Aquariums, 2-oz bottle - Chewy.com

Buy Dr. Tim's Aquatics One & Only Live Nitrifying Bacteria for Reef Aquariums, 2-oz bottle at Chewy.com. FREE shipping and the BEST customer service!

www.chewy.com

We Found the Best Saltwater Aquarium Nitrate Reducing Products

Excess nitrates can be an ongoing problem in saltwater aquariums. Here are the best nitrate reducing products for tanks, according to veterinarians.

www.thesprucepets.com

 

[kiko]

you forgot to mention that with chillers you also need a vent system like an aluminum air hose into the ceiling or a window to expel the hot hair...
otherwise the unit will keep fighting itself as it heats up the room with its motor..
whether people call them mini-ac units, chillers, or full on AC's...they all do the same...run the liquid through rad system which refrigerant inside to cool it...
once the refrigerant becomes hot...it'll travel through the path of least resistance (angled pipe) pushing the cold refrigerant back down on the other side...
it's also the reason AC/fridges etc....can't run non-stop because once ALL the refrigerant goes over a certain temp it stops doing what it's supposed to...(cooling things down)
running a mini-AC can still use around 300-500 watts which is about the same as having a computer on 24/7
specially with lots of people complaining about the costs of energy these days it's just not feasible for many
and if people truly want to invest in this...
might as well buy a car battery put a solar panel on a window to charge it and run it solar...
the power you need during the day would be provided by the sun and when night time comes the battery would have a full charge to power this on
I would also like to remind people the average cost for a home computer with a simple quadcore cpu 24/7 pre-war was about 250-300$/year
so the cost of energy VS the cost of investing in solar/battery power pays for itself as fast as 1 to 2 years
now looking at google for chillers....

Mini Water Chiller - The World's Smallest Cooling System

Mini Water Chiller - The World's Smallest Cooling System

www.rigidhvac.com

this guy lists at -16C ~ 30C can run from as low as 100w to 400w
and from what I saw on the specs the compressor has an overload shutoff protection (which will shut it off in case the temp keeps going up from running non stop)
and goes for $460 US...
but me being me..I gotta check prices so amazon I went...
and for the amazing price of 79$ I found these little guys:
https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B07F1V2B5Z/?tag=
2 of these combined with a thermostat of 18$ ---> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07HF6MSRS/?tag=ff0d01-20
does roughly the same job for half the buying cost....
now total expenses....
we'll use UK prices as energy costs are going up everywhere and UK would be a standard in the future with this global energy cost increase...
prices right now are listed at 0.36/kWh
running 2 of these (360w) with the thermostat (3w) plus lets say a 200gph pump at 25w for 12h/day as it turns on/off according to temp...(388w)
costs currently 50.28£/month or 611£/year
running the first guy alone at 500w for the same time costs 64.8£/month ~ 788.4£/year
now...
costs for solar with sources from common places found on google....
a 450w panel goes for 315$ canadian dollars https://solarpowerstore.ca/collecti...m-455w-solar-panels-free-shipping-canada-wide
a car battery 130$ CA with 35 Ah capacity at walmart https://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/12V-35...with-Minn-Kota-Sevylor-Marine/PRD6UI3XX1QLO90
but we need night power from let's say 6pm to am assuming our system needs to power the units for half that time that's at least 6hours of power
in case of the 388w system it needs 2328watts of stored power or a 12v 200Ah battery... https://offgridsupply.ca/agm-12v-200ah-deep-cycle-battery-heavy-duty/
damage for a battery like this is 620$ canadian which just increased our investment by quite a bit...
now as solar uses DC we also need a power controller for the incoming power out to the battery and then an inverter...
power controllers can be found on amazon for 30 bucks for 60amps which is more than double the capacity support we need for the 400w panel
and then the inverter at 135$ https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B08RJ3HXND/?tag=
so our solar system damage becomes 315$ for panel / 620$ for battery / 30$ for charger controller / and 135$ for inverter with a grand total of 1100$ canadian
788£/year (846$ US) to run a chiller on grid VS buying a small solar kit for 1100$ CA (809$ US)
the investment would pay for itself in 1 year
I myself can't put a solar panel on my window as it is against condo rules in my building but for the people that can
a small system like this can make an impact on your yearly energy costs
and for the people that own their own house...they should look to stronger power controllers/inverters as these are the main parts that make it future proof for adding capacity to the system
such as more panels/batteries and constant output power
These are just ideas that can save lots of money in the long run specially for people that tend to have MTS or fish rooms

 

[Lynnzer]

I can't see any requirement for a chiller. The north-east of England isn't what you'd call hot enough to impact on a home aquarium.

On the beneficial bacteria front, I collected more sand from in between high and low tide marks yesterday, along with a small crab and more fresh sea water. I'll be using those in another tub to plonk some more rock in.
I also put a bucket with 2 large rocks in that was bought from my LFS, then stuffed them into the rocks along the beach that are around half height from low to high tide.
I'll leave them there for quite some time to go live and take them out when I really get the tank ready for scaping.
I'm still hurting like hell from my fall, the last time I was at that location, right among the rocks at the bottom of the ramp.

 

[Colin_T]

I'm still hurting like hell from my fall, the last time I was at that location, right among the rocks at the bottom of the ramp.

That's what happens when you jump on a rock and try to impale yourself.

But seriously, you were lucky not to puncture a lung or need major hospital care.

Be careful when walking on wet or damp rocks or paths.