Just Do It Already! We Need Writers!

[jourdy288]

YEAHHHH! LETS PETITION! We shall be an organized fish movement. On a certain week, we will do as much as We can, following Crux's advice. Thank you so much everyone who helped. Fish are as emotional as dogs, cats and goats. Any Oscar owners out there? If so, explain how friendly they've been lately. Anyhow, about that week, guys, organize one for each major city. As Crux Stated, inform the police first, don't do any damage or we won't be taken seriously, AND STAY FRIENDLY!!! If this were to get out of hand, fishkeeping would be looked down upon. NYC, Chicago, Miami, London, Brisbane, Los Angeles etc. STAY PEACEABLE!

 

[fishlette]

stang is right to a point. housing bettas in small containers gives the impression that they can live in them all the time. same as with the goldfish in a bowl principle.

i think what is needed is for someone to attack the places that keep them in containers that are too small, not every place that sells them. take my case for example. i own a shop and keep ALL my bettas in a minimum of 4 litre glass vases. one of the manufacturers had a sale on so i decided to get a whole bunch when i bought the shop so that i could put them all in decent size jars. the cleaning roster has the water changed every 3rd day and everyone looks great. yet i still get all kinds of carry on from PETA related people. they dont look at each individual shops housing arrangments they just get up in their high horse about things and think they are the only ones who know how it is. grrrr anyhoo, i digress.

i also have a sign next to my bettas saying that although my size jars are more generous than most pet shops, it is bes that they have larger living quarters for the long term. right underneath them i have all my 'A-OK' betta tanks clearly pointed to by a large sign. so far, everyone has bought a good size bowl. except for one person who wanted to go against my suggestions and go for a small one because he didnt have the money. consequently he walked out without a fish or anything else. i dont mind though because i know had i made that sale, it would have been only to put money in the register, not to do what was right for the fish.

i know many places arent like me but many are as well. when an attack is made in poor lfs betta keeping standards, its a blanket attack on everyone. maybe doing some research and finding all the places that do need attention may be a good start. contact the big guys from all the places and keep going until you get a response. you can do more by yourself that way than by getting a million signatures on your petition

 

[fishlette]

You'd be surprised Rdd how many people come into the shop and assume that fish can be kept in small tanks, especially Bettas.

Actually, I'm sure there are a bunch but as I said, those are the ones that probably aren't going to take care of the fish anyway since they aren't concerned enough to learn anything about them. At least with other fish, you can ask questions before selling them so that they don't end up with 4 oscars in a 10 gallon tank. Although I'm sure there are way too many stores that would sell them without ever asking a question as to what they panned to kee them. That's pretty obvious by the number of goldfish that are sold for a gallon bowl. I think it once again goes back to the attitude that most people have about fish. To them, it's ust a fish. Big deal if it dies, they'll just get another one.

Maybe part of the problem is that fish are too cheap. If you think about it, we spend a $30 to $50 on a good sized betta setup and then put a $4.99 fish in it (unless you're buying from a breeder and paying the good money). Maybe if bettas at the LFS were $20+ people would think and research a little more before buying one.

wow! $4.99. my customers would be getting a bargain lol my veiltails sell for $11 and the crowns for $14. i do buy from a breeder so they are a little more expensive but i do like it that way with the bettas

 

[woodog]

My concern is overstocking. At one Petco there were about 100+ in cups stacked 3 cups high and 3 cups deep. Probably newly stocked. At another Petco about 25+ w/ limited shelf space. I'd like to here what numbers they sell each week.

 

[rdd1952]

take my case for example. i own a shop and keep ALL my bettas in a minimum of 4 litre glass vases.

Do you have plants in them? I'm sure you do a good of asking the right questions but on the same premise of seeing them in the cups could lead to people thinking they could be kept that way, seeing them in a vase with a plant can perpetrate the belief that a betta can live in a bowl with a plant with out food because it eatsthe roots. We all know that is not true but the average person doesn't. I even heard a Petsmart employee tell a potential betta buyer that if they put a plant in the bowl (it was about 1/2 gallon) that the only had to feed them once a week as it would eat the roots of the plants the rest of the time. I spoke up and told her that bettas don't eat roots to which she replied that she had 5 bettas and all hers were kept that way and they they all ate roots. I just walked away rather than getting into an argument.

wow! $4.99. my customers would be getting a bargain lol my veiltails sell for $11 and the crowns for $14. i do buy from a breeder so they are a little more expensive but i do like it that way with the bettas

But you are probably selling to people that know what they are getting and how to care for one. It's a lot easier to shell out $5 at Petsmart or Petco for an "expendable" fish than to fork out $10 or more. If a betta cost $20, I doubt there would be as many being sold as impulse buys by people that have no idea how to care for them. But with a quart bowl costing $3 and a betta at $5, they can get a fish for less than $10.

 

[t1tanrush]

Pet stores do not have money/space to put bettas in "bowls". They would have to clear out isles for bowls because you can't really put them behind eachother and have kids moving glass bowls full of water.
As much as the cup is bad it is sadly the most logical explanation for pet stores. Cheap and easy- they just get rid of the cup and all when they leave. No bagging, finding space, wasteing money. The care bettas get should be the first priority over what they are kept in. I'd rather they have a clean cup then be ignored just the same and die just as often in bowls.
BTW online petitions never work thought I'd mention...

 

[fishlette]

take my case for example. i own a shop and keep ALL my bettas in a minimum of 4 litre glass vases.

Do you have plants in them? I'm sure you do a good of asking the right questions but on the same premise of seeing them in the cups could lead to people thinking they could be kept that way, seeing them in a vase with a plant can perpetrate the belief that a betta can live in a bowl with a plant with out food because it eatsthe roots. We all know that is not true but the average person doesn't. I even heard a Petsmart employee tell a potential betta buyer that if they put a plant in the bowl (it was about 1/2 gallon) that the only had to feed them once a week as it would eat the roots of the plants the rest of the time. I spoke up and told her that bettas don't eat roots to which she replied that she had 5 bettas and all hers were kept that way and they they all ate roots. I just walked away rather than getting into an argument.

wow! $4.99. my customers would be getting a bargain lol my veiltails sell for $11 and the crowns for $14. i do buy from a breeder so they are a little more expensive but i do like it that way with the bettas

But you are probably selling to people that know what they are getting and how to care for one. It's a lot easier to shell out $5 at Petsmart or Petco for an "expendable" fish than to fork out $10 or more. If a betta cost $20, I doubt there would be as many being sold as impulse buys by people that have no idea how to care for them. But with a quart bowl costing $3 and a betta at $5, they can get a fish for less than $10.

as i said here:

i also have a sign next to my bettas saying that although my size jars are more generous than most pet shops, it is bes that they have larger living quarters for the long term. right underneath them i have all my 'A-OK' betta tanks clearly pointed to by a large sign. so far, everyone has bought a good size bowl.


no i dont put plants in the bowls.

what you say is fair enough regarding the people i sell too. i never thought of it that way

 

[fishlette]

Pet stores do not have money/space to put bettas in "bowls". They would have to clear out isles for bowls because you can't really put them behind eachother and have kids moving glass bowls full of water.
As much as the cup is bad it is sadly the most logical explanation for pet stores. Cheap and easy- they just get rid of the cup and all when they leave. No bagging, finding space, wasteing money. The care bettas get should be the first priority over what they are kept in. I'd rather they have a clean cup then be ignored just the same and die just as often in bowls.
BTW online petitions never work thought I'd mention...

this isnt necessarily true i dont think. my shop has only been open for 16 months all up (i havent had it the whole time). i wasnt making much when i bought the bowls but i got them all for $400 (80 @$5 each). if i can do this with the small amount of money i take, larger, greedier chain stores could do it. its down to how much effort and care a person is willing to put in...not always the cost. cost excuses can be a bit of a cop out. when you run a pet shop you still have to do everything you can to make your animals comfortable. its a responsibility. thats why all of my guys, even though they are in decent size bowls, get water changes every 3 days. most of the time i have around 40-50. still gets done cause it has to.

my opinion anyways

 

[rdd1952]

Pet stores do not have money/space to put bettas in "bowls". They would have to clear out isles for bowls because you can't really put them behind eachother and have kids moving glass bowls full of water.
As much as the cup is bad it is sadly the most logical explanation for pet stores. Cheap and easy- they just get rid of the cup and all when they leave. No bagging, finding space, wasteing money. The care bettas get should be the first priority over what they are kept in. I'd rather they have a clean cup then be ignored just the same and die just as often in bowls.
BTW online petitions never work thought I'd mention...

this isnt necessarily true i dont think. my shop has only been open for 16 months all up (i havent had it the whole time). i wasnt making much when i bought the bowls but i got them all for $400 (80 @$5 each). if i can do this with the small amount of money i take, larger, greedier chain stores could do it. its down to how much effort and care a person is willing to put in...not always the cost. cost excuses can be a bit of a cop out. when you run a pet shop you still have to do everything you can to make your animals comfortable. its a responsibility. thats why all of my guys, even though they are in decent size bowls, get water changes every 3 days. most of the time i have around 40-50. still gets done cause it has to.

my opinion anyways

It isn't the money that prohibits them from doing it, it's the space. Shelf space is best used for the best return. Having an aisle of bettas in bowls isn't profitable for them. They make their money off selling filters, heaters, chemicals, food, etc., not fish. There is a whole lot more profit in a $149 external filter than in a few bettas. It just isn't feasible for the chain pet stores to do it. That isn't going to change.

 

[jourdy288]

Yes, so they should not stock more bettas than they can care for. They can easily use larger square shaped containers, due to the fact they make millions selling equipment, chemicals, and medications. Some things they sell can have much cheaper substitutes, but the big companies are here to make money, not help people. I still say we follow the advice from Crux. We must do this all one big week. Sorry about how excitable I was, but if we organize, things will be great. In the meantime, get signatures from friends, family, anyone you can. They may get ignored in bowls, but if the movement is large enough, it could encourage further employee education and have the fish taken care of. That, and the fact bettas CAN LIVE SAFELY with some community fish. And females can live all in one tank. We are fishkeepers, and we have the modern understanding of fish to care for them properly. Let's keep it that way.

 

[t1tanrush]

Yes, so they should not stock more bettas than they can care for. They can easily use larger square shaped containers, due to the fact they make millions selling equipment, chemicals, and medications. Some things they sell can have much cheaper substitutes, but the big companies are here to make money, not help people. I still say we follow the advice from Crux. We must do this all one big week. Sorry about how excitable I was, but if we organize, things will be great. In the meantime, get signatures from friends, family, anyone you can. They may get ignored in bowls, but if the movement is large enough, it could encourage further employee education and have the fish taken care of. That, and the fact bettas CAN LIVE SAFELY with some community fish. And females can live all in one tank. We are fishkeepers, and we have the modern understanding of fish to care for them properly. Let's keep it that way.

The point is- the pet stores aren't interested in providing the best care they can for the bettas. They would rather have a bunch on hand, many colors and types all in 1 small area to look at, instead of a small number of bettas that are easily overlooked. Not to mention putting bettas in with other fish will most likely give the wrong message to buyers- its ok to keep them with other fish...

 

[CruX]

Just to be clear, I am not one for organised protests or radical action, but if you are going to do it I just wanted you all to know what is safe to do etc.

 

[rdd1952]

That, and the fact bettas CAN LIVE SAFELY with some community fish. And females can live all in one tank.

Not to mention putting bettas in with other fish will most likely give the wrong message to buyers- its ok to keep them with other fish...

I couldn't agree more. Going back to the original thoughts on this thread, one of the concerns of the OP was that seeing bettas in small cups leads people to think they can be kept that way. I still don't buy that theory but, if you theorize that, then seeing bettas in with other fish would also lead them to think betta could be kept wit other fish which may work under certain circumstances but is definitely not a good idea in the long run. And seeing a tank of female bettas together could also lead them to think that you can keep bettas together without problems, possibly leading to a tank of male bettas (only for a brief period obviously). They could end up putting bettas in with gouramis, guppies or angels, none of which would work for very long. I think this believed scenerio is much more harmul that the small cups. At least in the small cups, they aren't killing each other or other fish. Keep in mind, your theory that people will do what they see is based on them asking no questions and doing no research. If they did either, then they would know better from the start.

 

[jourdy288]

all right. So customer education is key. Laptop battery bottoming. Bad location. TTFN.

 

[jourdy288]

Sorry. Lost power yesterday on my laptop. Anyway, we need to not only get rid of the cups, but need to educate the customers.